[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', 'I') can't predict the future...who can.

But I thinks its happening now with only $4.00/gal gas.(One latest poll shows 75% of the public approves of drill here and now and it also showed a strong support for nuke plants.) As gas prices go higher and more jobs disappear.....the pressure on government will grow so intense that the government/politician will respond.

[Peleg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')Who is going to do without energy while it is diverted to build anything, nuke, wind, solar or whatever?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Peleg', 'Y')ou know,...I hate to say this but I think we out to give them what they want. They want to drill everywhere and anywhere, have at it!

[44Flattop]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Homesteader', '
')How about a link showing the chinese, Cubans and Spanish setting up offshore drilling rigs inside our 200 mile limit?

[TheDude]

Here is an MMS page with an excellent PDF showing GOM leases, platforms, pipelines, onshore facilities. Select the "(Visual 1 .pdf)." The area has seen a lot of production, contrary to MSM reports of millions of leases left unused - they're there, in between productive ones.

[ROCKMAN]

Peleg,

The oil/gas under Federal lands belong to the people and should be used to their benefit. Even though the polls now favor more OCS drilling (even self proclaimed liberals are 2:1 in favor) we are a representative democracy. It's the responsibility of the elected representatives to make the decision which they feel is in the best interest of the people regardless of how the public polls at any given moment.

Now...let's jump to the real world of fund raising, lobbyists, election cycles and citizens who don't want to give up the God given right to drive 10 miles to pay $4 for a coffe at Starbucks. Just like Clinton's battle with GW's daddy: "it's the economy, stupid". This year it will likely be: "it's the energy economy, stupid". In a darkly humorous way it will be amusing to watch it unfold. If we are about to run into that PO wall nothing short of very radical mandatory conservation will help in the short term. All the long term adjustments are important: voluntary conservation, alternatives, drilling, nuclear, etc. All are needed: to problem is too big for a single "magic bullet" even if you allow 20 or 30 years to get it cooking.

IMHO, I feel the two party sytem is so brittle that there is little or no room for compromise. I suspect the resultant positions will fall short of diminishing the troubles ahead.

[BigTex]

ROCKMAN, the question to me isn't whether we ought to allow drilling, the question is what the purpose of such drilling would be?

If we concede that we are in the early stages of a long term supply deficit relative to demand, then what is the point of simply buying a few extra years of consumption?

Wouldn't it be better to say that maybe more drilling isn't the answer at all and search for a real solution, such as living within sustainable limits?

If you are living above your means, is another credit card the answer?

Another question that I think is imprecisely phrased is the one of lifestyle. People say: "Yes, but don't you like living this luxurious American lifestyle?" The question really ought to be: "What is the long term effect of this luxurious American lifestyle? What is the future cost of today's extravagance?"

[Homesteader]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('44Flattop', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Homesteader', '
')How about a link showing the chinese, Cubans and Spanish setting up offshore drilling rigs inside our 200 mile limit?

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '
')Wouldn't it be better to say that maybe more drilling isn't the answer at all and search for a real solution, such as living within sustainable limits?

[vision-master]

Just Say NO to Offshore Drilling

2012 Forum.

[ROCKMAN]

vision-master,

I gather than that you support the termination of all drilling and production in the Gulf of Mexico?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'R')OCKMAN, the question to me isn't whether we ought to allow drilling, the question is what the purpose of such drilling would be?

[AlexdeLarge]

I don't think anyone with any knowledge of peak oil is suggesting that drilling is a long term solution. Energy costs will continue to move up regardless of if we drill or not drill. But perhaps drilling, nuclear energy, coal to fuel can buy us time to avoid a wholesale collaspe of the economy, massive unemployment......starvation.

I don't think we are going to achieve a "powered down, living within our means type life style" in the near future either. It will take time to make the transition..... Unless you want to move to a Draconian style of government and force the population to accept the transition immediately. That type of country already exists.

Life in North Korea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITBqRSMBWaM

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', 'I') It will take time to make the transition.

[MrBean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', ' ')No, not numbers, just fertility. Nature will take care of the numbers.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', 'N')o need to fixate on population numbers and especially on some estimated numbers, and certainly no good reason to proactively aim at the estimated numbers - human population will settle naturally at and below natural carrying capacity - what ever that may be. If that happens through dropping fertility rate, great, if by increased death rate, fine.

[MonteQuest]

I just heard James Hackett, CEO of Anadarko Petroleum on Kudlow & Company discussing off-shore drilling say, that "peakoil is determined by price."

[ROCKMAN]

Monte,

Did he offer some rational for the statement or did it come across as some sort of a BS talking point?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', 'M')onte,

Did he offer some rational for the statement or did it come across as some sort of a BS talking point?

[ROCKMAN]

I hate to judge on minimal info but it doesn't sound like he understands the definition of PO.

Manana folks