[ozkrenske]

What the ?????. How exactly is it unsafe for an eight year old to sit in a front seat. If they sit in the back middle they get a simple lap belt. In the front they have the lap part and the cross body part of the belt. They may also have crash tensioning. If they want they could even use a height reduction device on the belt. Alternatively secure front seat boosters exist.
In any modern car the front passenger seat would have air bags front and probably side. The only way it is less safe than the back middle is if the car head ons at such high speed that it crushes well into the cabin. The back seats are no safer from side penetration so that can't be the reason either.

If the front seat is that unsafe for children how do they justify allowing the driver to sit up there.
Personally in this particular individuals case they have already admitted that style (not wanting to be labelled) beats practicality and fuel economy anyway. So maybe I was a little harsh, I didn't mean they were an idiot, just couldn't understand the mind set in any easy way.
Then again I'm weird.
Beginning of a rant (I've read too many pro war, reduce the population, isolationist survivalist comments, mixed with stories of 'pain' at the pump and need to release, so tune out if you want.) .

I know how to be concerned about people, but in my book anyone who is concerned with style at all, is way above my point of concern for their physical well being. Paying for and spending a month in Sri lanka helping to rebuild is at my point of concern, assisting with critical crisis care (rape recovery and sudden loss support) is a point of concern, assisting with womens education and small business loan support in India and Bangladesh is a concern. Worrying about how someone is suffering, paying an extra $25 for fuel when they own multiple vehicles and drive a SUV for style and need to transport kids to play dates and saturday sports(yes I know that was the other story), is so far beneath my concern, it's funny to even think I could be concerned about them. In fact the fact that someone could be concerned about those people, when so many others deserve concern for much better reasons, is almost insulting to anyone who does care for the truly needy. (damn that sounds preachy but too bad)
Then again I am a bit blunt. I actually had to stop while walking my dog last month while someone reversed out of their driveway without checking, only to have to stop for them again, only 70 meters later, as they pulled into the corner store carpark. I walked over and told them they were a lazy prick to their face before continuing on my way. The look on their face was priceless. Twice since then they've seen me on my walk, and they can't meet my eye. If I was talking to the lady in the original story I would of called her on her issue so badly I would have forced her to see her self. Interestingly I don't go to, too many upper class cocktail parties.

As to my own oil dependance, I'm not dependant, I use because it is easier, but I am hardly dependant. I am within a walk of work, a short walk of primary production ( Beef, Dairy and Grain ), shops and public transport. I kill my own food at least twice a year for ethical reasons, so if a need ever arises I can. If things get seriously desperate I know how to eat (and catch) what most would never look at ( snakes, rodents, insects, pidgeons, sparrows, dogs and cats ), mind you I honestly don't think the society I am in will reach that point. If fuel ever get's too expensive for my meager needs then things will be very hard. The worst I think my country can get to, from my point of view, is a serious loss of luxury and the rediscovery of thrift (1940's style). For many, this is unimagineable or a horrible inconvenience, but then again they probably can't at all imagine digging graves for children that have starved to death or helped a child recover from having an arm machetted off either.
I'm about as prepared as I need to be. Vegies, and chickens out back, 2 years worth of staples that I cycle through, spices and herbs growing in a shade house, its amazing what you can support on a quarter acre. So food is set, No debt, Savings(several hundred K invested, a hundred in a bank, 50 odd in cash, 400 odd in silver), limited fuel needs, I have adjusted, by barely adjusting up from poor life during the 93 recession, I live on and plan to, on half my wage. My primary concern is actually, issues regarding a long ( 10+ year deep depression scenario ) term deterioration. I assume that if such a long downturn occurs, that someone at some point will do something stupid ( I suspect Pakistan or North Korea ) and we see a severe crash. I'm long past believing people couldn't be that stupid. Any serious sudden crash will hurt my country less than others (Aus has major surplusses in food and energy, low pop, and established rule of law, rare around the world.). By the time we are in serious strife I expect big chunks of the world to barely exist.

I've lived in and been in some nightmare and shit situations. (Refugee camp in Zaire, had fun in Sudan, Rwanda and Somalia, had to deal with some lord's resistance army child soldiers, spent a month on a solo hunting/survival trek in Siberian winter (had to wash in bad quality vodka), buffalo culled in the territory for two months as a teenager for money to buy my first computer and lived in a chinese hutong/slum for a couple of months on my last holiday. I have never taken a holiday at a resort in my life, I did backpack onto a beach resort once in Egypt by accident though.) My home society has a very long way to fall so far. Mind you we're short on guns here so I also don't expect, armed mobs successfully over running police or the very (200 meters away) nearby Army reserve depot. I have 4, lost boy families, living in my street and they know pain and are friends I would help and they would help me, two of them think they remember meeting me in kenya but I can't remember them. I live where I can have my door unlocked and open now at five past midnight, and not have a concern. I forgot last year to shut my front door when I went to work and the sudanese family across the road sent their three small boys to camp on my front step and play in my front yard all day instead of going to school to make sure no one came in. The kids loved doing it (they skipped school) and they went with, the next time I went rabbit snaring. Last december my neighbor across the road and two up was assaulted by a drunk ex boy friend around 11 at night. I rang the cops and by the time I got across the road there were two other neighbours already there and we subdued the prick and sat on him, while two female neighbours (one was one of the other guys wives.) helped her.

That's the society I choose to live in and take part in, screw consumer culture, give me a book and a hammock for a day off.
I live in what I consider a very good location for surviving and dealing with Peak Oil.
An awful lot of people live in this world, but they have absolutely no idea what goes on in it, they think they do, but most don't. A lot also live, but have barely been alive or know how they should live.
The rant is over.

[nocar]

oz, that was a long rant. Children should not be in the front seat because the airbag is dangerous for them - their heads are in the wrong place.
One solution is to remove the airbag in the passenger seat, which of course has other risks.
nocar

[Specop_007]

Talk about spoiled kids, goddamn.
We cram my wife, myself, 3 kids and luggage in a Jetta TDI. Are the kids cramped? Yep. Welcome to being a kid. Be glad your going. When you get older and have a job and a house you can decide what you want to drive. Until then, get yer ass in the car cause we're going.
How hard is that? We treat kids like fully gorwn adults. "Oh, I cant fit them in". Yes you can. Shit, you drive, its not uncomfortable for you. Tell them to get thier ass in and go.
Sheesh. No wonder kids act like that own the friggin world anymore.

Otherwise, people are going to wise up quick on gas. My Expy holds 30 or 32 gallons. If I drive it as my daily driver I fill up once a week.
30*4 = 120 *4 = $500 (rounded you jackasses )
500 bucks a month to drive is a bit extreme. If you assume a Taurus which is 14 gallons I think
14*4 = 56 *4 = 300. I could swing a car payment up to 200 bucks and break even......
Simple math though will elude people to the end I fear.

[strider3700]

the problem of needing to fit too many kids and too much crap in a little car will be solved when the soccer practices and dance recitals are canceled. Not one of the activities listed here could be considered even close to an essential service that requires this use of fuel.

People still have no clue whats coming.

[MC2]

Gas is still WAY too cheap in the U.S. I visited S. Korea a bit over a year ago, and at that time, gas was running around 6 buck/gallon and change. I imagine they've sustained some pretty big price increases, as we all have, since then.
Roads were busy, especially around Seoul, but once you got out a ways on the highways, really not bad at all. Here, we're still choked to the max with soccer moms and dads busily ferrying their little superstars all over the countryside. That crap will have to stop.
I'd like to see 5.00/gallon before Christmas, 6.00 by next summer. That should begin to thin out the maggotry just a little. I agree with the previous poster, though, in that it will probably take in excess of 10.00 gas to really have the needed impact.

Bring it on. Long time coming...

[Isochroma]

the dinosaurs kept on truckin' for a while too
now they are just bones in museums
a geological perspective's a good corrective
what's here today will soon be gone away

[retiredguy]

In a letter to the editor in one of local papers today, a local women defended her need to own TWO Suburbans. She said it was the only safe way to transport her FOUR children and large dog.
She said God helped her make the decision.
Oh, and she considers herself and environmentalist because she recycles.
I'm sure there are more people like her. Certainly more than those who subscribe to the notion that we are in overshoot. Or that oil could be a finite resource.

[Ferretlover]

"Hummer's Peak Oil Dive
Oh, how the mighty have fallen! While the automotive geniuses of GM where promoting the Hummer to the Hollywood glitterati and wannabe's, Toyota was planning for a peak oil future with the Prius.
General Motors Corp. announced week that it was considering ways to downsize the brand -- last month, sales plummeted 60% compared with May 2007 -- sell it off or kill it outright. Chairman Rick Wagoner's "all options" remark didn't leave a lot of hope for fans of the quasi-military sport utility vehicle. Obituaries will be many and eulogies will be few. ..."
Daily Galaxy

[mrobert]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('retiredguy', 'I')n a letter to the editor in one of local papers today, a local women defended her need to own TWO Suburbans. She said it was the only safe way to transport her FOUR children and large dog.
She said God helped her make the decision.
Oh, and she considers herself and environmentalist because she recycles.
I'm sure there are more people like her. Certainly more than those who subscribe to the notion that we are in overshoot. Or that oil could be a finite resource.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mrobert', '[')b]Perhaps they could adapt an Abrahams tank for her. Put some rubber
wheels on it. Also, they could increase it's engine to make it safer for her.

[mrobert]

Nice!
Do those things run on bio-etanol? We could be saved