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THE Hummer / SUV Thread pt 2 (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby lawnchair » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 11:20:24

My truck ('93 V6 Dakota) only gets about 2,500 miles a year. Moving friends (pulling a trailer), hauling my rototiller (sideline biz), and occasional "car is in the shop" days. For the first two, a rear-wheel drive ladder-frame vehicle is a near-necessity.

At 2,500 miles a year, it is going to last a *very* long time.

The "commute in an F-150" era is over, but the trucks/SUVs we have will be around for a long while. Demand for new ones, though? Oughta be damn near zero. There's more than enough to go around.

I also expect there are going to be a lot fewer people pulling around travel trailers, boats, and show horses. So, a lot of demand destruction for "truck needs".
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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby joelcolorado » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 11:20:30

Its only a bargain if you can afford to fill the tank. HAH..
I think that the scrap yards will be overflowing with Trucks and SUV's that no one wants.

My friends all bought 4x4 , 4 door trucks with huge engines for just them and the wife. Plus have other SUV's etc. I dont have any sympathy for them. Who NEEDS that kind of car for two ppl. JUST IN CASE someone goes along? That is selfish and stupid.

I am laughing each time I fill up my little car.
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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby TommyJefferson » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 11:27:53

There is still way too much price resistance. I've been waiting a long time for this situation. I want my next truck. People are still asking too much for them.

Example: http://easttexas.craigslist.org/car/711464308.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '2')002 Toyota Tundra V8 4.7 Liter 4WD 157,000miles
Image
Kelley Blue Book $11,595.00


No.

The time to buy is near. So close, just not quite.
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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby joeltrout » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 11:38:13

As a SUV owner myself and my wife also owns a SUV I feel the love....or lack thereof. :P

If you guys are this excited about SUV extinction, I can't even imagine when peak oil takes place and you can "laugh" at everyone around you because you were ready. Most of you will be gleaming with excitement.

Not everyone is selling SUVs. My wifes drives a mid-size SUV but here next car will be a full-size SUV since we will probably have kids by then. My next vehicle either be another SUV or a pick-up. I am excited because dealer SUV prices might be cheaper. So I say bring on the SUV extinction as long as they save a couple for me and my wife.

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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby yesplease » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 12:05:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'H')ilarious. Auto makers think the solution is to build MORE cars, one for every task that a driver might conceive of, in fact, so each American can wind up owning a fleet of cars, rather than just one or two. The solution will always be LESS cars, not more.
Considering a vehicle's embodied energy is ~15% of the energy needed to run it over a scant ~120k mile lifetime, it makes sense to have different types from the POV of energy use, and can make sense financially depending on the vehicles/owner in question.
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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby jdmartin » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 12:11:25

I've got an SUV for 4x4/hauling duty, don't know what size it's considered - midsized? (Pathfinder). It does weekend duty, little car takes me back and forth to work. I'm personally glad to see the prices tanking, because I really would like to have a truck again (the SUV works but it's not as versatile) but I'm waiting until prices go way, way into the toilet bowl. If you need to buy one of these, you're almost in a good way.
After fueling up their cars, Twyman says they bowed their heads and asked God for cheaper gas.There was no immediate answer, but he says other motorists joined in and the service station owner didn't run them off.
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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby joelcolorado » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 12:18:04

Its funny how we are. Just cant face the facts. We tend to tie a knot in the rope and attempt to hang on with all facts against us.
Yes a truck is nice. I wonder tho, if renting one from Home Depot for $19 is cheaper than owning when you need one. Just a thot.

Or have one for ten neighbors etc. Diff thinking than we are used too for sure. Just weird. Was just in jamaica and ppl there so so poor and yet they seem so happy. Not like here. We have it all and most ppl not happy still.

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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby emersonbiggins » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 12:25:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'H')ilarious. Auto makers think the solution is to build MORE cars, one for every task that a driver might conceive of, in fact, so each American can wind up owning a fleet of cars, rather than just one or two. The solution will always be LESS cars, not more.
Considering a vehicle's embodied energy is ~15% of the energy needed to run it over a scant ~120k mile lifetime, it makes sense to have different types from the POV of energy use, and can make sense financially depending on the vehicles/owner in question.


Expand the analysis to costs of insuring, maintaining, registering and paying taxes on a vehicle that is used infrequently (a convertible, for instance), and I'm almost sure the person will always be better off renting that specific type of vehicle for whatever period of time they might need such a vehicle.

The umbrage that I take with this issue is that it is posited as a means of mitigating high gas prices for middle-class consumers. It's a short-term "fix" (if you can call it that) to a fundamental long-term problem. Adding a subcompact to 2 full-size SUVs makes less sense than trading one of them for the car, simply for the reason that the SUV market is dead, never to come back again.
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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby MarkJ » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 12:28:40

Many of us been watching for bargains on decent used full sized trucks and SUVs. There are plenty of them for sale, but either prices aren't low enough, they have too many miles, they're too old or they're in rough shape.
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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby yesplease » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 12:35:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'H')ilarious. Auto makers think the solution is to build MORE cars, one for every task that a driver might conceive of, in fact, so each American can wind up owning a fleet of cars, rather than just one or two. The solution will always be LESS cars, not more.
Considering a vehicle's embodied energy is ~15% of the energy needed to run it over a scant ~120k mile lifetime, it makes sense to have different types from the POV of energy use, and can make sense financially depending on the vehicles/owner in question.


Expand the analysis to costs of insuring, maintaining, registering and paying taxes on a vehicle that is used infrequently (a convertible, for instance), and I'm almost sure the person will always be better off renting that specific type of vehicle for whatever period of time they might need such a vehicle.
I ain't better off, so a person isn't better off always renting. Insuring, maintaining, registering and paying taxes are all expenses and IME worth it compared to renting. Insurance is done on a month by month basis, and if I ain't usin' it that month, it ain't insured. Registration is really the only fee that's pointless to go w/o, but at ~$40 it's no biggie. Maintaining something also costs money, but at ~2,000 miles/year that's ~$100, most of which is for smog. The advantages being having a vehicle that'll cost less to run due to optimization for specific needs and can be beat on w/o some company screaming bloody murder over a dent and/or similar. IMO/E it not only is cheaper, but far less hassle.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'T')he umbrage that I take with this issue is that it is posited as a means of mitigating high gas prices for middle-class consumers. It's a short-term "fix" (if you can call it that) to a fundamental long-term problem.
As a "fix" it works for me, but as always YMMV. Can it save money compared to keeping one car? Sure. Will it? Depends on the behavior of the consumer in question.
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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby emersonbiggins » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 12:44:44

True, as you said, YMMV.

If I need a truck, I buy a 2x4 at Home Depot and rent theirs for $20. :)
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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby yesplease » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 12:50:14

Dang, at $20/hour, I would've been out nearly a grand a year if I did the same! If I didn't get it for free, it would've paid itself off twice over since I nabbed it. ;)
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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby mos6507 » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 12:52:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eXpat', 'H')a ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
This is just starting, everywhere. I was watching last night a special program of Spanish Television and the cost of truckers to fill up their tanks is just crazy.

I would like to see the faces of this three stooges by the end of the year

Image


Since when do these guys have to worry about the price of a fillup? The show will just begin to resemble "lifestyles of the rich and famous" after a while.
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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby joeltrout » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 12:59:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'T')rue, as you said, YMMV.

If I need a truck, I buy a 2x4 at Home Depot and rent theirs for $20. :)


Cityslickers (myself included)....You guys living in the city forget Home Depots aren't everywhere. MOST places don't have easy access to Home Depot or other truck rental places.

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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby emersonbiggins » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 13:12:06

True, most people in rural areas usually need a pickup. I can only speak for those in the "King Ranch" F-250s that I regularly see zipping around Dallas. :roll:
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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby joeltrout » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 13:21:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'T')rue, most people in rural areas usually need a pickup. I can only speak for those in the "King Ranch" F-250s that I regularly see zipping around Dallas. :roll:


Probably working for oil companies or land owners in the Barnett Shale getting fat royalty checks each month.

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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby emersonbiggins » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 13:25:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joeltrout', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'T')rue, most people in rural areas usually need a pickup. I can only speak for those in the "King Ranch" F-250s that I regularly see zipping around Dallas. :roll:


Probably working for oil companies or land owners in the Barnett Shale getting fat royalty checks each month.

joeltrout


Hmmm, I doubt it. You forget that this is Dallas - the land of monthly payments. I doubt that many of these rubes are hooked into the Barnett. But, the real estate racket, my yes!
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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby heroineworshipper » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 13:32:52

As long as car loans are free, the SUV's will keep roaring down & back on their 30 mile commutes every day. Despite the number of times the AP stories got copied, have not seen any change in SUV quantity. Money supply needs to grow slower than inflation for demand destruction.
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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby Twilight » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 13:36:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ost people who buy a new car or truck don't think they are making a risky bet on the commodity futures market. But they are in fact dumbasses. Just ask someone who's trying to unload a large sport-utility vehicle purchased in the last two or three years.


My addition bolded.

Most SUVs never see the country. You can always tell who needs one. They are the people with a tow ball, winch and roof rack. They are not even 1% of what I see on the road. Everyone else just wanted one, and while I have no moral criticism, from a personal finance standpoint most of them bet wrong. They will just have to take the loss, adapt and overcome.
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Re: Demand for large SUV's has collapsed; owners can't sell

Postby TommyJefferson » Tue 10 Jun 2008, 14:21:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', 'M')any of us been watching for bargains on decent used full sized trucks and SUVs. There are plenty of them for sale, but either prices aren't low enough, they have too many miles, they're too old or they're in rough shape.


That's what I'm seeing.

Around here, scores of clapped-out duallys and SUV's are showing up on the side of the road with for sale signs on them.

On the better vehicles, much of the resistance to the natural market price seems to be coming from people who are upside-down on their note.

I can empathize. When you still owe $20,000 on a vehicle for which paid you paid $40,000, it's hard to accept that the market value is $12,000.

I'm waiting for the really good ones at fire sale prices.
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