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The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak Oil

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 15:17:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('revelator771', ' ')But I can't depend on one of you to open a bag of rice for me.

I think if you spend more time here, and get to know people better, you will find friends here. There are several people here whom I trust as much as any friend I have in "real life," though I have never met them in person.

There is community here, you just have to take time to become part of it. Like any community, you can't just drop in from nowhere and expect to be part of it immediately.

:)
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby mos6507 » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 15:55:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') know very little mathematics. How does this affect my interaction with other human beings and with the rest of the actual world?


The only math humans really need to master for our own sake is the exponential function.
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby errorist » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 16:53:33

When you know very little mathematics then your decision-making is bit crippled and some concepts are over your head (pretty pictures can fix that in some cases, in other cases pretty pictures can lead you to... um... hell?) but thats all OK when you have enough common sense left to avoid getting in miserable situation and have to apply for compassion.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') know very little mathematics. How does this affect my interaction with other human beings and with the rest of the actual world?


edited to satisfy ferretlover, added 7 first words.
Last edited by errorist on Tue 03 Jun 2008, 18:06:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby Ferretlover » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 17:42:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('errorist', 'Y')our decision-making is bit crippled and some concepts are over your head (pretty pictures can fix that in some cases, in other cases pretty pictures can lead you to... um... hell?) but thats all OK when you have enough common sense left to avoid getting in miserable situation and have to apply for compassion.

Errorist: In reading your posts, your expectations seem to be geared to interacting with machines, not people. Perhaps you should spend a bit more time contemplating your responses before you head for the keyboard.
And, your response to Ludi was just plain rude.
"Open the gates of hell!" ~Morgan Freeman's character in the movie, Olympus Has Fallen.
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby vetusfirma » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 18:07:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', ' ')understanding that it's okay to do these things simply because they make YOU feel good.

So for you compassion is a verb and requires you to do something. Something that makes you feel good. But do you really 'do any good'.
The bum is still living in the same condition as before, unless you adopt the ones you feed. If you think the bum is a victim (popular if misguided view) then what good does a can of soup do. If the bum is in a self inflicted condition, then the soup is a reward. You may feel good, but your just increasing the duration of the bums pain. I don't know how far out in the woods you are, but most citified places have more bums than you have soup, although a city would give you a lot of chances to feel really good.

Humans always think they have to mess with everything, and make it 'better'. How absurd.
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby BigTex » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 18:30:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vetusfirma', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', ' ')understanding that it's okay to do these things simply because they make YOU feel good.

So for you compassion is a verb and requires you to do something. Something that makes you feel good. But do you really 'do any good'.
The bum is still living in the same condition as before, unless you adopt the ones you feed. If you think the bum is a victim (popular if misguided view) then what good does a can of soup do. If the bum is in a self inflicted condition, then the soup is a reward. You may feel good, but your just increasing the duration of the bums pain. I don't know how far out in the woods you are, but most citified places have more bums than you have soup, although a city would give you a lot of chances to feel really good.
Humans always think they have to mess with everything, and make it 'better'. How absurd.

You can adopt whatever attitude you want toward bums. If I choose to give them food some of the time, why would you care? I don't imagine that a can of food is going to solve any problem, I just do it (I actually haven't done it in a while) because it makes me feel good.

Why would you expect me to respect your views on bumdom if you aren't going to respect mine?

Why not just say that bums are bums and if you want to give one a can of food go for it? Why must you judge me because I am not acting according to your values? I'm not judging you because you are not acting according to mine.

If I choose to pursue my own happiness, why do you care? On what basis have you become responsible for telling me what's best for me?

As for "really doing any good", who cares? Who cares what the bum does after he eats the food? I didn't give him the food to change his life, so I don't care what he does after he eats it.

How is compassion, either in thought or deed, "messing with something" to "make it better." How about compassion as just an expression of kindness without judgment?

I don't have enough time or energy to change the world, but if I want to toss pebbles in the ocean, don't you have anything better to do than stand there and tell me how dumb that is, based upon your incomplete understanding of what I am doing and why I am doing it?

I'm not you, I don't have your values, thus what I do won't always make sense to you, but why does that trigger scorn? What is the value of that scorn? Where does that get us? Does it deepen your understanding? No. Does it change my behavior or beliefs? No. So why do it?
:)
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby btu2012 » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 19:10:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', 'T')o those who think that they'll kill others in order to protect their lifestyle: beware. You'll be the first targeted for removal.

By others who are even more ruthless?

By those who know what you are capable of. :)
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby threadbear » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 19:34:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', 'T')o those who think that they'll kill others in order to protect their lifestyle: beware. You'll be the first targeted for removal.

By others who are even more ruthless?

By those who know what you are capable of. :)

Exactly. I'd off him in a heart beat, if he threatened me or mine in any way. Is that being excessively sentimental?

If he can't accept this from people. [smilie=kiss.gif], he might just get this. [smilie=new_blowingup.gif]
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby errorist » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 19:40:56

Warning: thoughtcrime alert!
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', 'T')o those who think that they'll kill others in order to protect their lifestyle: beware. You'll be the first targeted for removal.

By others who are even more ruthless?

By those who know what you are capable of. :)
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby Jack » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 19:45:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('errorist', 'W')hen you know very little mathematics then your decision-making is bit crippled and some concepts are over your head (pretty pictures can fix that in some cases, in other cases pretty pictures can lead you to... um... hell?) but thats all OK when you have enough common sense left to avoid getting in miserable situation and have to apply for compassion.

Knowledge of mathematics is not a binary condition. At each level, different vistas open. Thus, concepts in calculus provide a different lens through which to view the world. Likewise, statistics, boolean logic, topology, and differential equations each contribute something to understanding. There are people who have dedicated their lives to each of these parts of the field of mathematics. I know several.

One of my friends wouldn't know how to set up an ANCOVA to save his life; but he can do a double tap with a Glock 22 and have superb shot placement. He could survive in the field for an extended period with limited supplies.

If bad things happened, I'd rather have my friend by my side than one of the folks with a doctorate in mathematical statistics.

Now, as to Ludi - the knowledge of how to grow food is important, and provides a lens through which to view the world. Given the choice between Ludi's knowledge and an in-depth appreciation of the finer points of normal distribution curves, there are scenarios where Ludi's knowledge is of greater value.

Errorist, you are establishing a reputation in this virtual community. I suggest you think about what that reputation might be.
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 19:46:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('errorist', 'W')hen you know very little mathematics then your decision-making is bit crippled

What decisions require mathemathical knowledge, in your opinion?
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby Jack » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 19:51:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'E')xactly. I'd off him in a heart beat, if he threatened me or mine in any way. Is that being excessively sentimental?
If he can't accept this from people. [smilie=kiss.gif], he might just get this. [smilie=new_blowingup.gif]

I like your thinking! But the problem is knowing, isn't it?

8)
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby btu2012 » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 20:14:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'E')xactly. I'd off him in a heart beat, if he threatened me or mine in any way. Is that being excessively sentimental?

Yup, a heartbeat is too long. I'd off such people in a millisecond. :)
Last edited by btu2012 on Tue 03 Jun 2008, 20:24:16, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby btu2012 » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 20:18:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'I') like your thinking! But the problem is knowing, isn't it?

Don't worry. We know. :twisted:

People tend to follow their instincts much more in crisis situations, and there are evolved instincts to recognize predators in sheep's clothing.
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby btu2012 » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 20:30:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('errorist', 'C')ompassion-stompassion. Make yourself useful. Start with educating yourself.

Strike one against.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('errorist', 'M')anipulating opponent and at least basic concepts at manipulating crowd.

Strike two.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('errorist', 'L')ook, I already have a dog and I'm feeling compassionate to this poor being. Want to earn same level of compassion against you?
More, being all-compassionate (christian?) freak leads the subject of your compassion to lose himself in ever-increasing learned helplessness cage. He's your responsibility now.

Strike three.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('errorist', 'W')arning: thoughtcrime alert!

Strike four.

Getting there errorist.
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Last edited by btu2012 on Tue 03 Jun 2008, 20:35:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby errorist » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 20:33:29

This is exactly what I said. Mathematics as a language. See above.

I also said, that ultimately narrow specialization has taken us to here - our field of view is so narrow that it is a) abused b) we abuse it and make shortsighted decisions.

Yes, I can grow food and even raise and butcher pig.
Yes, I am excellent marksman.

All that in addition to mathematics, physics, psychology, ...

This tread is about compassion. There are 2 views to compassion.
1. Compassion as future investment. Instinctive.
2. Compassion as compensation mechanism to fill in holes in somebody's personal life. Learned.

I prefer first. This is the first comment by me on this tread. We do not need shortsighted humans in future. As for slaves, maybe. Instead of horses and alike. Without right to vote.

Ludi has common sense as far as I can read out from his posts and I am lurking here for years. Strong common sense fills his mathematics deficit and everything is OK for now. But common sense only can not take us to the stars and game is over.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'K')nowledge of mathematics is not a binary condition. At each level, different vistas open. Thus, concepts in calculus provide a different lens through which to view the world. Likewise, statistics, boolean logic, topology, and differential equations each contribute something to understanding. There are people who have dedicated their lives to each of these parts of the field of mathematics. I know several.

One of my friends wouldn't know how to set up an ANCOVA to save his life; but he can do a double tap with a Glock 22 and have superb shot placement. He could survive in the field for an extended period with limited supplies.

If bad things happened, I'd rather have my friend by my side than one of the folks with a doctorate in mathematical statistics.

Now, as to Ludi - the knowledge of how to grow food is important, and provides a lens through which to view the world. Given the choice between Ludi's knowledge and an in-depth appreciation of the finer points of normal distribution curves, there are scenarios where Ludi's knowledge is of greater value.

Errorist, you are establishing a reputation in this virtual community. I suggest you think about what that reputation might be.
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 20:39:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('errorist', ' ')But common sense only can not take us to the stars and game is over.


Oh ok. My lack of mathematics knowledge will keep me from making the decision to escape to the stars.

Ok.......

How' s that escaping to the stars thing working for you, errorist? When's take-off?
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby btu2012 » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 20:46:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('errorist', 'W')e do not need shortsighted humans in future. As for slaves, maybe. Instead of horses and alike. Without right to vote.

Strike five.
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby Jack » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 20:52:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('errorist', 'Y')es, I can grow food and even raise and butcher pig.
Yes, I am excellent marksman.
All that in addition to mathematics, physics, psychology, ...

My, what a remarkable resume'.

Does the knowledge of psychology include making a positive impression?
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Re: The costs, benefits, and impact of Compassion after Peak

Unread postby errorist » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 21:04:55

Sure. Look above - I said it: positive example. But there is a little problem with that - overall negative load causes temporary blindness.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('errorist', 'Y')es, I can grow food and even raise and butcher pig.
Yes, I am excellent marksman.
All that in addition to mathematics, physics, psychology, ...

My, what a remarkable resume'.
Does the knowledge of psychology include making a positive impression?
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