[cube]

The economy is contracting in slow motion. There's not a day that goes by where there isn't some news about a company either going belly up or at least downsizing.
Will this lead to a return to the single income family similar to what we saw in the 1950's?

[errorist]

Try imagining some more concepts.
No income family.
Single income community.
...



$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'T')he economy is contracting in slow motion. There's not a day that goes by where there isn't some news about a company either going belly up or at least downsizing.
Will this lead to a return to the single income family similar to what we saw in the 1950's?

[FoolYap]

Mmm, pie...

I've been wondering about that. Unfortunately, my crystal ball is on the fritz. What kind of economy will we have? What kind of resources? What kind of adjustments will we have to make to them both?

Will unemployment be so high that on average households will have no choice in the matter? Will we be lucky to have one income per household?

Or, will there be jobs, but so low-paying that we must work at least two to make ends meet with rising energy costs?

Will food be so expensive that most of us need to try to grow a substantial portion of what we need? In that case, will it require one member of the household to be home full-time to do it?

Will there still be enough energy for all of us to cook on conventional stoves & ovens? Or will we have a model of community ovens? And buy our bread and perhaps our meals from someplace close to home?

It's easy to look back at history, and assume things will go that way -- woodstoves, preserving by drying and smoking and maybe canning -- but that's almost certainly not the way things will go. Too many people. Not enough land and resources. So, is there going to be a big die-off? In that case, "income" is meaningless.

--Steve

[MrBill]

Hmm, cube, I voted for the single income family, and not out of choice. Not only where there will be a loss of jobs, so that employers can become incredibly picky about who they hire, but scarcity should ensure that someone needs to not only stay home to take care of the house, but to also stand in line, hunt for bargains, do the mending, etc. On the otherhand those lucky enough to have two incomes should find no shortage of labor for taking in laundry, cleaning the house, looking after the children, etc.

[Alcassin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'H')mm, cube, I voted for the single income family, and not out of choice.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alcassin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'H')mm, cube, I voted for the single income family, and not out of choice.

[kellan1776]

I voted no, however I dont think a return would be all a bad thing for the family unit. We live in a single income situation and have more time for each other and to spend on our land.

I do also like pie, especially made by my little girls.

[Kingcoal]

Boy, you guys are optimistic, I voted for "d", which is 'no income per household'. Without the economic feedstock (oil), employment will become a luxury. That might make you think that we would return to an employment landscape like we had before oil, but there is a catch. The world population back then was about 1 billion. Today, it's 6.7 billion and rising. That's a lot of pie-holes to feed and keep busy.

My theory is that with millions out of work in never seen before unemployment, people won't be able to pay their rent/mortgage, utilities or grocery bills. Utilities, grocery stores, etc, will go bankrupt and the government will take them over. This new emerging economy will use the necessities of life as it's currency in the form of government vouchers. All one has to do is sign on the dotted line which will read something like this:

"Under penalties of perjury, I swear or affirm that the information I have provided is true to the best of my knowledge and I heretofore agree to abide under the laws and statues of Executive order #XXXX"

Congratulations, you are now a ward of the State, property of the US governemnt. You will report to work where and when instructed, you will relocate if instructed, you wave your Constitutional rights in return for food and shelter. Since this new ward of the State status is completely voluntary, it is completely legal under the Constitution. During the Colonial days, many people came to this country as "indentured servants." Those agreements, which enslaved a person for x number of years were considered legal under the Constitution because when you are free, your highest freedom is your ability to sign your freedoms away. You have the unlimited right of contract and people will contract their freedoms away to feed, clothe and shelter themselves and their families. Disobey any provision of the special jurisdiction you've committed yourself too and you will be dealt with harshly. You are now under a military style of law, you have no rights, only privileges which can be given and taken away with no due process. You will probably be able to leave the program, but that means no more vouchers for food, for clothing, for heat. You get the picture.

It's a brave new world.

[Alcassin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', '
')Sadly to say, only my grandma's and my mom's who know how to properly do pie crust and make a delicious pie. Apple, rhubarb, saskatoon, pumpkin or cream it doesn't matter what the filling is, but the pie crust has to be light and flaky. My eye may wander when it comes to skirts, but to my pie I am true. No over sweet, store-bought substitutes will do! ; - ))

[Ludi]

very small income family, if lucky.

no income family, if not lucky.

[Jack]

Actually, I think we'll see lots of 1 income families.

There will probably be government programs, not unlike the WPA and CCC of the 1929 depression era.

As for jobs - supply and demand will create a balance. As supply goes up, wages will go down. Minimum wage laws will be avoided by using commission schemes, or through inflation that reduces real wages even as nominal wages remain static.

There will also be a variety of jobs similar to what occurs around WalMart in Mexico. Numbers of non-employees gather and provide excellent service to customers in transporting goods to their cars in exchange for tips. We'll see a lot of that, I think.

Of course, as we decline further, things will get more...exciting, shall we say.

[FoolYap]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'S')adly to say, only my grandma's and my mom's who know how to properly do pie crust and make a delicious pie. Apple, rhubarb, saskatoon, pumpkin or cream it doesn't matter what the filling is, but the pie crust has to be light and flaky.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'v')ery small income family, if lucky.

no income family, if not lucky.

[WildRose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '
')BTW I like pie. However I was never fortunate enough to have a home cooked pie so I cannot reminisce about something I never had.

[threadbear]

What is it about pie? It keeps popping up, fresh baked, on these forums. Is it a metaphor for some of the posters? Crusty on the outside and gooey and soft on the inside? Or does any talk of a stay at home parent produce a rush of smells tastes and visions, one of the most appealing of which is pie?

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '
')BTW I like pie. However I was never fortunate enough to have a home cooked pie so I cannot reminisce about something I never had.

[drew]

Hey, I'm already there! Pretty much a single income family since the local university closed my wife's dept. Needless to say I'm fighting some strong economic headwinds. Both the wife and I have absolutely no idea of what we want to do with the rest of our lives but we have mad skills for a post peak world. So it goes....

Drew

[vetusfirma]

The lost tribe they just found in the Amazon is the prefect example of the worst case. Totally savage, at substance levels, shooting arrows at the helicopter. Yes they survived, yes the ones still alive were healthy, but they are like dogs. They cannot conceive of anything out side of their own reality. And what they do see, they try and kill. That is humans without oil. We can do better in the decline, maybe.

[vetusfirma]

The lost tribe they just found in the Amazon is the prefect example of the worst case. Totally savage, at substance levels, shooting arrows at the helicopter. Yes they survived, yes the ones still alive were healthy, but they are like dogs. They cannot conceive of anything out side of their own reality. And what they do see, they try and kill. That is humans without oil. We can do better in the decline, maybe.

[Homesteader]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vetusfirma', 'T')he lost tribe they just found in the Amazon is the prefect example of the worst case. Totally savage, at substance levels, shooting arrows at the helicopter. Yes they survived, yes the ones still alive were healthy, but they are like dogs. They cannot conceive of anything out side of their own reality. And what they do see, they try and kill. That is humans without oil. We can do better in the decline, maybe.