[ProudFossil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kpeavey', 'P')roudfossil wrote$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')lease give me one example from anthropology of the die off a population.

[Nickel]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', 'I') still want an example of where a HUMAN population loses a resource and simply sits down to die rather than adapting or moving. THERE is none, at least none on a large scale and most of you doomers are predicting it will be world wide. I might possibly grant the Easter Island disaster but that is the only one I can think of.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'a')n I believe we are not. Show me some "adapting" evidence that "we" can change.

[Nickel]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', 'I') honeymooned in the Yucatan area. I road buses with hundreds of Mayans. They did not die off. They are still there.

[nobodypanic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', ' ')I honeymooned in the Yucatan area. I road buses with hundreds of Mayans. They did not die off. They are still there.

[Ferretlover]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', 'I') still want an example of where a HUMAN population loses a resource and simply sits down to die rather than adapting or moving.

[malcomatic_51]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', 'P')lease give me one example from anthropology of the die off a population. The closest I can think of real quickly is the Mayan Empire. It did go through the first three but don't tell the thousands of Mayan Indians in the Yucatan they are dead.

[malcomatic_51]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NeoPeasant', 'I')'m hoping that we merely decline into a lifestyle that resembles a cross between 30's depression /40's rationing /coldwar eastern Europe. I don't know if I can prepare for much worse than that.

[dohboi]

Many nice points, Monkey. I think it is, in fact, overlooked by some how much excess is in the system that could be lost quickly. Car sharing and a quick increase in bus use both for local and intercity use could drop gas use significantly.

On the other hand, we have seen gas prices more than triple in the last eight years, and through much of that period, gas-sucking SUV's were among the most popular vehicles to buy, only dropping off recently as prices approach and pass $4/g.

The main reason PO will lead to a major population reduction (die off, not extinction) on a global level (not necessarily as severe in every location) is that most of the exponential growth in world population in the last century or so has been enabled by increasing efficiencies on the farm, enabled in turn by fossil fuels, particularly:

--mechanization (tractors, trucks to bring produce to market)
--fertilizer (made directly from fossil fuels, or produced with energy from ff)
--pesticides

It may be possible that rapid conversion to latest organic and permaculture methods could help ween agriculture from dependence on pesticides and some fertilizers, but we're still a long way from that for most of the major food crops.

Keep reading. Have you read any Heinberg or Kunstler yet? They are some of the most accessible, even if they aren't considered experts in geology or any of the other speciallized areas relating to this important topic.

Anyway, welcome, and don't write people off as irrationally doomerish too soon--after all some paranoid people really do have people who are out to get them

[ProudFossil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', 'I') still want an example of where a HUMAN population loses a resource and simply sits down to die rather than adapting or moving.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', 'I') honeymooned in the Yucatan area. I road buses with hundreds of Mayans. They did not die off. They are still there.

[ProudFossil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', '
')I honeymooned in the Yucatan area. I road buses with hundreds of Mayans. They did not die off. They are still there.
.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', 'S')o I will hold to my basic question, where is the example of a population dying off because of the loss of a single resource.

[Homesteader]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nickel', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', 'I') honeymooned in the Yucatan area. I road buses with hundreds of Mayans. They did not die off. They are still there.

[Monkeydust]

Some great responses here, and again it's good to see that there's a good number of people - even among the 'doomers' here - who are fairly open-minded on this topic.

I've got a lot more research to do, but I still remain fairly optimistic. If petrochemicals were cut off tomorrow, we'd have an agricultural crisis on our hands without parallel. But this isn't going to happen. We will have time to cultivate more land, diversify our crops, grow our own in our gardens via 'permaculture', and make use of urban space for growing crops - in ways that aren't really thought about at the moment.

My own view is that this change - or decline, if you prefer - is going to be a long-term phenomenon. Rather than a 'die-off', we may see cultural views regarding having children change as we realize the limits to growth. Where having a large family used to be considered the 'proper' thing for couples, we may see the reverse happen, and foregoing raising children might become 'the norm' as the economy changes dramatically. Such a state of affairs might make a die-off, at least on the 90% scale people here envision, fail to materialize.

Instead we might see a slow contraction of population - unfortunately coupled with 'die-offs' in the more vulnerable parts of the world - along with changes to our way of life, technological adaptations (if not solutions), and wide-ranging changes in culture and lifestyle.

One thing I am sure of, and that is that we are not heading back to the stone age. The collective knowledge, expertise, and technology we have amassed - not to mention the amount of products and machines we have already built - makes this kind of dramatic regression an impossibility. Instead, we might see some kind of quite different, more localized way of life. It might not necessarily be all bad in the long-run. My view of the coming decades is that we're going to see huge upheaval and change, and considerable economic contraction, but not necessarily widespread death and famine. Whether or not this is a catastrophe depends on how attached to modern life you are.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Monkeydust', 'I')'ve got a lot more research to do, but I still remain fairly optimistic. If petrochemicals were cut off tomorrow, we'd have an agricultural crisis on our hands without parallel. But this isn't going to happen.

[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Monkeydust', 'S')ome great responses here, and again it's good to see that there's a good number of people - even among the 'doomers' here - who are fairly open-minded on this topic.

I've got a lot more research to do, but I still remain fairly optimistic.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Monkeydust', ' ')My view of the coming decades is that we're going to see huge upheaval and change, and considerable economic contraction, but not necessarily widespread death and famine. Whether or not this is a catastrophe depends on how attached to modern life you are.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Monkeydust', 'S')ome great responses here, and again it's good to see that there's a good number of people - even among the 'doomers' here - who are fairly open-minded on this topic.

I've got a lot more research to do, but I still remain fairly optimistic.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', ' ')I am still asking for a definition of the term die-off. I have seen at least five different ones so far in these forums.