[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'T')hreadbare, you say you're "aghast" at the propaganda in the U.S.?
Then you write, "you may have to wait for elective surgery like knee replacement".
First, I'm not sure knee replacement is "elective". If you can't walk you can't walk.
Second, your own Supreme Court said . . .
"As a result of delays in receiving tests and surgeries, patients have suffered and even died in some cases, justices Beverley McLachlin, Jack Major, Michel Bastarache and Marie Deschamps found for the majority."
Link
I'm not a donkeyshit eater Threadbare - neither U.S. nor Canadian.
In the U.S., your system is touted as a model social system for healthcare by most people, so don't have any worries that it's being demonized - only a few of us can see what a disaster it is.
As a first matter, I can't even guess how many great doctors in Canada simply said f--ck it before going to Med school because they didn't want to be grossly underpaid for their services?
As a second matter, my main problem with a national health care plan would be that me - Mr. Healthy - don't smoke, drink to excess, do stupid things, make good money, would end up paying the bill for all the fat, red meat pounding, smoking, drinking, couch potatoes out there.
That sucks.
Why on earth would I want to be in a group plan with all the slackers of the world?

[allenwrench]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'H')istory has shown that nothing works like high prices. The problem is that back in WW2, before suburbia, people generally lived relatively close to work. I used to ride the R7 train from Bensalem, PA to Philadelphia. That route went through Kensington, an old manufacturing corridor, now all abandoned. You have groups of old factories about a 5 to 10 minute walk from each train station. Also, most of the people who worked in those factories lived in the row houses nearby. Before WW2, it seems like most working class people simply walked to work. In Philly, they used to call those neighborhoods, "lunch pail communities" because of all the men walking with lunch boxes. From an energy standpoint, places of employment in the cites, with public transit nearby is very efficient.
I have no idea what people are going to do these days. Hell, I know a lot of people who can barely afford to drive to work as it is now. I guess huge numbers of people are going to just park the car and stay home and collect government benefits. The problem is that high fuel prices are fantastically regressive, affecting the working poor exponentially more than higher classes.

[allenwrench]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', ' ')They're driving Ford 250 somethings, and Tahoes, and they live in trailers and shit boxes.

[allenwrench]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'P')eople generally still have no clue.
We have friends who live a mile or so from us. The guy calls me a week ago asking me to tell him all about our economy car because he found one like ours used and wanted to make an offer.
I've been ranting away about peak oil with him for about a year now, btw, so I was really surprised what happened next!
I ran into his wife at my daughters clarinet solo yesterday and I asked her if they bought the economy car. She said no, they're getting a truck instead because they're buying a bigger boat and need the power of a large pick-up to tow the larger boat.
I know they use their current boat about 5 times a year.
This is what we're up against.

[Heineken]

Excellent rant, Wrench.

When I read summaries like that I feel my head imploding. Or maybe exploding. And your description barely even scratches the surface of our problems.

We are in fantastic trouble.

I'm a doomer because long ago I recognized that our world must end before a new one can begin.

[joelcolorado]

Thats the easiest fix for this problem. Every person will be allotted an amount of fuel to use as they see fit. Can use it, sell it, trade it or whatever.
Why should some ppl use more than their fair share of the earths resources. IF you have a good reason I am open to it. There is none except selfishness.
We all have to live here and hopefully for a long time. Why not make it fair and unbiased.

[americandream]

Better still. Take those stupid, filthy steel boxes on wheels off the roads and invest, using the vast billions we do on miles of tarmacadam, on state of the art public transport that serves the people.

[joelcolorado]

Or both.
I think we are set to become more like Europe and ppl will stay closer to home and use trains etc. more some day.
a train can move one ton of freight, 500 miles on one gallon of fuel.
Easy to fix this mess but no one wants to sacrifice anything. Most selfish ppl on the planet.
PPl get so mad at me when I suggest that MAYBE we drive smaller cars and use less gas. Its their RIGHT dont you know.

[Cashmere]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hy should some ppl use more than their fair share of the earths resources. IF you have a good reason I am open to it.

[Jack]

Rationing? That's a great way to develop a black market, and thus subsidize organized crime.
Go back to prohibition and see how well such plans work.

[joelcolorado]

Gasoline rationing worked in WWII so its possible. You get a coupon book for gas or a card that will swipe like a credit card loaded with so much gas. Or on your car, a bar code etc.

Its not that hard with technology today. People that dont think this will work just dont WANT it to work. We want to use all we want and the hell with everyone else.

[HEADER_RACK]

Rationing constrains and kills economic growth. It won't work

[DomusAlbion]

As always price will enforce rationing. Those who can't afford the cost will drive less or not at all.

Eventually there will be either enforced rationing or subsidies to critical sectors of the economy such as trucking, agriculture, the military, movie stars and of course the elite. And then there will be a huge black market with unregulated and unreliable quality of fuel that will kill millions of cars.

[gollum]

If we ration I would like to see tradable rations. That way someone who is thrifty with his fuel has encouragement.

[Lumpy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', 'A')s always price will enforce rationing. Those who can't afford the cost will drive less or not at all.
Eventually there will be either enforced rationing or subsidies to critical sectors of the economy such as trucking, agriculture, the military, movie stars and of course the elite. And then there will be a huge black market with unregulated and unreliable quality of fuel that will kill millions of cars.

[joeltrout]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HEADER_RACK', 'R')ationing constrains and kills economic growth. It won't work

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'I')f we ration I would like to see tradable rations. That way someone who is thrifty with his fuel has encouragement.

[startswithearthquakes]

.. or we just all take a mark .. so they know all about us all the time, and the mark only allows us so much and we can not buy nor sell without it ...

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joelcolorado', 'G')asoline rationing worked in WWII so its possible.