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PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Your political leaning

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

What political view do you support?

Fascist (no democracy, limited indiv. rights)
4
No votes
Conservative (democracy, free market, trad. values)
11
No votes
Libertarian (democracy, free market, liberal values)
21
No votes
Centrist (democracy, limited free market, trad. or liberal values)
18
No votes
Liberal (democracy, very limited market, liberal values)
13
No votes
Socialist (democracy (?), total gov. control over economy)
4
No votes
Anarchist (indiv. or tribal autonomy)
22
No votes
Other
7
No votes
 
Total votes : 100

Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby Ludi » Fri 16 May 2008, 22:00:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', 'I')'ve got a mental post-it note which says no politics, no religion on po.com.


Oh man, that just takes all the fun out of it! :-D
Ludi
 

Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Fri 16 May 2008, 22:21:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', 'I')'ve got a mental post-it note which says no politics, no religion on po.com.


Oh man, that just takes all the fun out of it! :-D


Seriously! What else is there to talk about at this point?
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby Fredrik » Sat 17 May 2008, 05:08:12

I'm suprised by the low support for left-wing liberalism so far. The general atmosphere here is very anti-neocon (not without reason I admit), and I thought "liberal" is the default choice for Americans who are disappointed in the right wing.

As for anarchists, it would be interesting to discuss what kind of social organization you prefer - independent villages, tribes or what? And how would such social units be organized, ruled, defended...?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', 'H')owever, your description of Socialism is a little, ahem, inaccurate - bearing in mind that half the governments in Europe are Socialist & they still function.


They're not socialist in the original Marxist sense if they allow private corporations and the free market to exist. I know the new German Linke party has stated "democratic socialism" as its goal, but establishing such a system would be extremely difficult in the current global economic situation, especially in the heart of Europe.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', 'A')lso Communism is still a political goal for many people across the world and the fight is not over yet (although its' ommission from your poll speaks volumes about the hole in people's heads that still exists from the so-called 'Cold War').


I don't discount communism as a goal for many disenfranchised people. I kind of merged socialism with communism - wasn't it orthodox Marxist doctrine that socialism was a temporary phase on the way to communism (the ultimate utopia)?
"Only scarcity and effort make life worth living."
"A fundamental, devastating error is to set up a political system based on [individual] desires." -Pentti Linkola
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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby MrBean » Sat 17 May 2008, 05:45:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fredrik', '
')As for anarchists, it would be interesting to discuss what kind of social organization you prefer - independent villages, tribes or what? And how would such social units be organized, ruled, defended...?


In wider sense, this is "anarchism": http://www.ic.org/
(In strict historical sense anarchosyndicalists etc. still clinging to industrialism are as dogmatic-theoretical and boring as any established ideology)

I think the point is that there is no single correct way of organization, making decisions etc. Ecovillages are learning processes, not final products. Does not mean they would not have visions, goals, etc.
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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 17 May 2008, 10:04:05

I agree, Mr Bean. Diversity is the best strategy for survival.


diversity
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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby MrBean » Sat 17 May 2008, 12:22:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') agree, Mr Bean. Diversity is the best strategy for survival.


diversity


Thanks for the link. Nice looking primitivist site.

If the task of man is to maintain biodiversity and add to biodiversity (reflecting it with social diversity), how do you feel about using direct GM to add to biodiversity, assuming that was possible?
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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 17 May 2008, 13:04:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', ' ')how do you feel about using direct GM to add to biodiversity, assuming that was possible?


I personally think GM is stupid, wasteful, and unnecessary. It does not "add to biodiversity," it reduces it.
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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby btu2012 » Sat 17 May 2008, 13:05:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fredrik', 'I')'m suprised by the low support for left-wing liberalism so far. The general atmosphere here is very anti-neocon (not without reason I admit), and I thought "liberal" is the default choice for Americans who are disappointed in the right wing.


I think that Americans are disappointed with the whole traditional division into left and right, given that both major parties have betrayed them as well as their roots repeatedly.

It's encouraging that a large number of Americans do see the origin of the problem, which is the accumulation of power (economical, political, legislative, mediatic) into the hands of a tiny group of people, and the general dynamics of power relations, which corrupts our societies (EU and US) to the bone. The main point of "anarchism" is the criticism of these power relations.

Personally I think that anarchism is yet another "ism" and thus not a solution, though it is a useful critical tool. I personally think that there is no ideological solution to the problems of the world.

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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby btu2012 » Sat 17 May 2008, 13:11:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schadenfreude', 'I') would be in favor of scrapping the Federal Reserve and I would probably favor setting up a branch of government, answerable to the public and separate from the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial, who would be responsible for creating and regulating the money supply.


Would you support including social and environmental externalities as part of VAT ?

Btu
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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby eastbay » Sat 17 May 2008, 13:15:27

Yeah, like the party in Cyprus, I much prefer the term, 'communist'. But I checked 'socialist' because they mean exactly the same thing.

Don't argue with me on this. :x
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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby btu2012 » Sat 17 May 2008, 13:15:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', 'I') use to be a hard core conservative. Voted straight ticket republican from 1988-2004. However in the last few years I have been disturbed by the neocon agenda. In 2006 I voted independent and democrat on the local level. I knew the rednecks were right about our gun rights. Now it seems the the pinko "Beardo-the-Weirdo" hippies were right about our civil rights. I'm in Limbo.


And here we have it. Republicans and Democrats both pushed extremist and ideological agendas, while fleecing the population for the interest of corporations. The "neocons" and the "new left" have about as much to do with their constituencies as the well fed, well clad, "drug-experiencing" middle class Beardo-the-Weirdo had to to do with the working class.

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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby vision-master » Sat 17 May 2008, 15:05:23

tribal..........
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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby mos6507 » Sat 17 May 2008, 16:20:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') agree, Mr Bean. Diversity is the best strategy for survival.


diversity



http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/IDIC
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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby threadbear » Sat 17 May 2008, 16:32:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', 'I') use to be a hard core conservative. Voted straight ticket republican from 1988-2004. However in the last few years I have been disturbed by the neocon agenda. In 2006 I voted independent and democrat on the local level. I knew the rednecks were right about our gun rights. Now it seems the the pinko "Beardo-the-Weirdo" hippies were right about our civil rights.


I'm in Limbo.


That's okay. At least you're no longer in Limbaugh!
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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby 3aidlillahi » Sat 17 May 2008, 18:06:26

I'd prefer a fairly small, conservative government that would only intervene in free enterprise to ensure the well-being and safety of its citizens such as militarily, environmentally or in the workforce, for example.

I do think that the leadership of the government should be far-sighted and willing to sacrifice. I don't think they should be in a position to let the country continue along a dangerous path nor should they enact cruel, binding measures to the people to correct that path.

What I mean is that the government, take the current situation with energy, shouldn't enforce an unreasonable burden on the oil-consuming population with say a $5 tax on gas, but instead try to inform the public as best as possible on what is actually happening and ways to avoid disaster. Small tax increases could be used but nothing that would overburden, only cause awareness and quicker transformation.

They should also show that they are serious about the problem by cutting back. Ditch the energy-inefficient White House and move into a 1 000 sq-ft apartment or townhouse, reducing the size of the motorcade, teleconference, etc. Show that being a leader is not a privilege in which you are above the people but instead just an occupation and that they are still just one of the people. Doing as such, I believe, would help the people see the correct path and have options to correct it. (Not that I ever support grandiose displays of power such as in the White House mansion, large private budgets, etc. I mean, the wife of the VP even has her own secretary!)

While a strong and large government with good leadership can do very good things, I believe an educated, free and willing nation can accomplish more.

But since you can never find an educated population or a greed-free government in reality, I tend to be more centrist or apathetic.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m suprised by the low support for left-wing liberalism so far. The general atmosphere here is very anti-neocon (not without reason I admit), and I thought "liberal" is the default choice for Americans who are disappointed in the right wing.


One of the main problems with neoconservatism is the foreign policy which was basically adapted from the liberal foreign policy which is that we have the big stick so we should use it. Think of Korea, Vietnam, etc. With Democrats and it was Republicans that got us out. The whole idea of going to war in the ME for "our strategic interests" (ie. oil)? Carter. It was continued with the Bushes and Reagan, but they got it from him.

(The corruption is also horrendous).

That's why there's been a backlash against Neocons and since going to the Dem side yields the same idea of interventionism (at least historically), most would rather stay to the right of center.

There are plenty of options between Neocons and actual conservative Republicans. BJ Lawson (11th NC), Walter Jones (3rd NC) and Ron Paul all defeated Neocons in the Repub primary. So to assume that one must defect to the other side of the aisle if one is tired of neocons is inaccurate.
Riches are not from abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind.
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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby Schadenfreude » Sat 17 May 2008, 23:34:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schadenfreude', 'I') would be in favor of scrapping the Federal Reserve and I would probably favor setting up a branch of government, answerable to the public and separate from the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial, who would be responsible for creating and regulating the money supply.


Would you support including social and environmental externalities as part of VAT ?

Btu


I assume you are referring to the heretofore unaccounted costs of pollution and eco-system destruction?

I don't know how that would be incorporated into a Value-Added Tax in a non-complicated way.

Generally, I would favor environmentalism as a political and spiritual concern broadly taught and practiced at every level. I don't know why this has to be considered a "Lefty" or "Birkenstock" value to be ridiculed. We are nothing without our environment!

It boggles my mind that environmentalism isn't preached in churches. I can't think of a more holy body of knowledge than that gained in comprehending the complex inter-dependencies of an eco-system, from microscopic on up.

I guess we won't know what we've had until it's no longer there.
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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby medicvet » Sun 18 May 2008, 01:51:43

I'm in a quandry.

I can't figure out if I am a democratic socialist with strong libretarian leanings, or a libretarian with strong democratic socialist leanings...

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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby btu2012 » Sun 18 May 2008, 03:18:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schadenfreude', 'I') assume you are referring to the heretofore unaccounted costs of pollution and eco-system destruction?


Yes.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') don't know why this has to be considered a "Lefty" or "Birkenstock" value to be ridiculed. We are nothing without our environment!

It boggles my mind that environmentalism isn't preached in churches. I can't think of a more holy body of knowledge than that gained in comprehending the complex inter-dependencies of an eco-system, from microscopic on up.

I guess we won't know what we've had until it's no longer there.


Quite so. Definitely it's not an ideological issue, it's simply common sense and basic ethics. But we live in unethical societies.

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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 18 May 2008, 09:51:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schadenfreude', '
')It boggles my mind that environmentalism isn't preached in churches.


Some Christians are trying to share this ethic.

http://creationcare.org/


I think it is a step in the right direction.
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Re: Your political leaning

Unread postby RedStateGreen » Sun 18 May 2008, 14:09:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schadenfreude', '
')Generally, I would favor environmentalism as a political and spiritual concern broadly taught and practiced at every level. I don't know why this has to be considered a "Lefty" or "Birkenstock" value to be ridiculed. We are nothing without our environment!

It boggles my mind that environmentalism isn't preached in churches. I can't think of a more holy body of knowledge than that gained in comprehending the complex inter-dependencies of an eco-system, from microscopic on up.

I guess we won't know what we've had until it's no longer there.

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