Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Forgive me for being irritating.

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby aflurry » Wed 14 May 2008, 12:54:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'W')hat exactly is chicken fried steak? Is it a beef steak fried in chicken fat? Pardon my ignorance, but I'm from Philly and I know only of cheesesteaks.


Steak that's fried chicken style, coated in batter and pan fried in oil.


good for breakfast with eggs and gravy.

it's crazy how regional food is with all of the ease of travel, populations migrating around the globe, raw ingredients loaded into refrigerated trucks, etc. and yet, at the pinnacle of the age of oil you still can't a good NY slice in Texas, a good SF style burrito in Massachusetts, a good cheese-steak in Florida, or good BBQ in California. What's up with that?

So now we're berating each other for how much or how little we care for morality, suffering, and the end of civilization? we suck. none of us know each other well enough for that, which pretty much guarantees that any comments about someone else's moral turpitude or naiveties are more likely emissions of our own buried fears, for we are each of us our own psychology's bitch.
User avatar
aflurry
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 824
Joined: Mon 28 Mar 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby Heineken » Wed 14 May 2008, 13:12:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I')t has always been about controlling resources. The stuff we buy, even our crappy wooden homes, are just metals, oil, and timber packaged up and made shiny and pretty. We live in Suburban Ghettos because we are easy to control that way. If you have a big ranch, farm or some industrial timberlands you don't want people nosying around and stealing firewood and game. You don't want people to be producers you want them to be consumers of your, the real wealth.

All revolutions are about land and redistribution. It will not happen here because most Americans don't even know what real land is, or what to do with it. They have been herded and are willing to feed and die in their paddocks.


Excellent post. A gem. Nails it.
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog

"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---I & my bro.
User avatar
Heineken
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7051
Joined: Tue 14 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Rural Virginia

Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby threadbear » Wed 14 May 2008, 13:35:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'T')-bear, your OP lacks the usual intellectual sparkle of your stuff.

We already know all this. We know you know it and you know we know it.

Yes, commodities are the only real game in town, and greedy clever people will try to make hay out of them while the haymaking's good. So what is new here?


Actually Heineken, you missed the point. It's not just about greedy clever people. That's the alarming part. It's about the average investing schmuck, who has a few dollars to throw around, subject to mainstream media, that neutralizes the morality of investments. He/she isn't encouraged to reflect on the consequences of his/her actions.

CNBC's latest appeals to their viewer-ship-- This is almost a direct quote, "Private prisons. How you can get some of that action!"
also--"Vice funds" Recession signals are good for Vice!

You will notice that I opened by apologizing for being irritating and reiterating, endlessly. But the thread seems to have gotten response.

I don't believe a thread has been started, discussing investing from a purely moral perspective. I've framed most of my objections to the way people invest, in appeals to their self interest.

There are many people on this forum, who for one reason or another don't invest. Whether they are living a life of voluntary or involuntary simplicity, they are probably doing the right thing.
User avatar
threadbear
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby threadbear » Wed 14 May 2008, 13:52:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I')t has always been about controlling resources. The stuff we buy, even our crappy wooden homes, are just metals, oil, and timber packaged up and made shiny and pretty. We live in Suburban Ghettos because we are easy to control that way. If you have a big ranch, farm or some industrial timberlands you don't want people nosying around and stealing firewood and game. You don't want people to be producers you want them to be consumers of your, the real wealth.

All revolutions are about land and redistribution. It will not happen here because most Americans don't even know what real land is, or what to do with it. They have been herded and are willing to feed and die in their paddocks.


So you have no problem with Vulture capital, working through real estate investment trusts, for example, buying up distressed American mortgage debt for pennies on the dollar? You realize, through this and other processes, the U.S loses sovereignty? Do you have any idea where this process ultimately leads?

I really hate the, "It's always been this way". It hasn't. That is simple acquiesance to a situation that is in no way, inevitable.
User avatar
threadbear
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby threadbear » Wed 14 May 2008, 14:11:51

Bull shit. PStarr. There's plenty we can do about it. Central banks could stop this, in a heart beat by doing what the IMF prescribes for all irresponsible govts. Raise interest rates. Reregulate banking, commodity markets, etc...
User avatar
threadbear
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby GeoJAP » Wed 14 May 2008, 15:41:52

If I could make an objective comment, the original poster is reacting in a classic "liberal" fashion. As this article explains, a study concluded that liberals cannot rationalize inequality and are frustrated by it.

Article Link
GeoJAP
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu 14 Feb 2008, 04:00:00
Location: Texas

Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby DefiledEngine » Wed 14 May 2008, 15:45:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Life can't be completely fair, but it isn't in my nature to ignore what could become murder, suffering and deprivation on a massive scale. It gives my life substance and meaning to simply care. That may seem foolish, but man doesn't live by chicken fried steak alone.


So I take it you're upset over the injustice of resource use and distribution? Then why have you bought a computer which you are now just using for non-essential entertainment?
User avatar
DefiledEngine
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 344
Joined: Thu 19 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby threadbear » Wed 14 May 2008, 15:48:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GeoJAP', 'I')f I could make an objective comment, the original poster is reacting in a classic "liberal" fashion. As this article explains, a study concluded that liberals cannot rationalize inequality and are frustrated by it.

Article Link


And what of George Soros? Do you think he would agree with you? He's one of the wealthiest men in the world. Do you think he believes in the wisdom, nay the COMPASSION, the tough love of markets? Do you think he might know a bit about this, or is he a deluded, liberal, bachelor of arts, financial loser?
User avatar
threadbear
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby threadbear » Wed 14 May 2008, 15:57:49

And furthermore...... :lol: :lol:

GeoJap--Soros on market fundamentalism.

A. Since the 1980s, the global financial system has been dominated by an ideology I call market fundamentalism - the idea that markets are perfect and regulations are always flawed. But markets aren't perfect. Left to their own devices, they always go to extremes of either euphoria or despair. The Federal Reserve and other regulators should recognize this, since they've had to bail out the markets in crisis after crisis since the 1980s.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/12/pf/soro ... stversion=
User avatar
threadbear
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby threadbear » Wed 14 May 2008, 16:10:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'B')ull shit. PStarr. There's plenty we can do about it. Central banks could stop this, in a heart beat by doing what the IMF prescribes for all irresponsible govts. Raise interest rates. Reregulate banking, commodity markets, etc...
Real assets are tied up by corporate law that demands maximization of profit and thus maximal extraction and profit from the land. Corporations must clearcut forests, trample agriculture land, and strip topsoil for minerals. If you want to change this you must change the very nature of the corporation and the corporate charter in the United States so that these institutions serve the commonweal and not the investor class.

Futhermore, land not tied up in this financial system is owned by families and decendants that do not want you messing with their prerogatives.

You are not a communist are you?


What's more, international trade agreements have to be repealed, in some cases, and radically altered in others. Necessary firewalls have to be reinstalled around nation states. This is simply financially conservative, not communist.
User avatar
threadbear
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby threadbear » Wed 14 May 2008, 16:24:14

And I will give them a knuckle sandwich. :)
User avatar
threadbear
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby Jack » Wed 14 May 2008, 16:34:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'S')o you have no problem with Vulture capital, working through real estate investment trusts, for example, buying up distressed American mortgage debt for pennies on the dollar?


Works for me.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'Y')ou realize, through this and other processes, the U.S loses sovereignty? Do you have any idea where this process ultimately leads?


Sure.

When I see our rulers (no, not leaders - rulers) seal the borders, end free trade, balance the budget, and end foreign aid of every sort, I'll think about it.

Until then, I'll go with the flow.

And now, a question for you - what, precisely, is an American? (By American I refer to the U.S., and membership in the society).

Let us not resort to legalisms, for example "someone who is, according to existing law, a citizen of the U.S.". No - how can I look at someone, talk with them, and conclude they are (or are not) a U.S. citizen? I suspect you will find no clear demarcation.

But if I do not know - and cannot describe - the members of my country, do I have a country? Or do I merely share a marketplace with other greedy opportunists? If the later, why should I not seek to profit, even to the detriment of the shared marketplace?

Dead serious, Threadbear.

8)
Dieoff. Fun to watch. Better with hot buttered popcorn! [smilie=new_popcornsmiley.gif]
Jack
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4929
Joined: Wed 11 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby threadbear » Wed 14 May 2008, 17:12:57

Jack, I guess being "American" is a little like being "black". It is a general consensus creation. It's not simply what you consider yourself, it's what you are considered by others.

I understand why people reach a point where they conclude it's just easier to go with the flow, too, like you, Jack. A person can only take so much chronic disappointment in their fellow man without becoming cynical. I'm trying very hard not to end up there...but then I haven't been exposed to some of the things I'm sure you've been exposed to.
User avatar
threadbear
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby BigTex » Wed 14 May 2008, 17:57:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I') understand why people reach a point where they conclude it's just easier to go with the flow, too, like you, Jack. A person can only take so much chronic disappointment in their fellow man without becoming cynical. I'm trying very hard not to end up there...but then I haven't been exposed to some of the things I'm sure you've been exposed to.


Disappointment is usually the result of unrealistic expectations.

How did you arrive at your initial expectations that led to disappointment?

It can be a tremendous relief to just accept the world as it is without judging it based upon the standards you may apply to yourself.

Once you fully internalize the world as it is, nothing will ever disappoint you again. You will only have pleasant surprises.

To me, being realistic in this way is the cure for cycnicism, not the cause of it. Cynicism is, to me, just the manifestation of an unrealistic set of expectations.

Another matter that can be quite liberating is to stop judging people who don't meet your standards. The world is full of people who do dumb things. I've done dumb things myself. When I hear of people doing dumb things, even incredibly dumb things, I don't judge them, I just try to make sure I have not depended upon them to be smart, because that would mean that I was not being realistic about things in the first place.

I am not condoning anything by recognizing that it happens. It's just that ultimately my judgment regarding the rightness or wrongness of what someone else does is irrelevant, unless I happen to be a judge or jury member, or I find him in my living room in the middle of the night.

Even if I were the one in position to render a judgment, I wouldn't imagine it was because I represented what was "right", it would merely be because I was the one who wielded the power over that individual. In other words, "right" is not some driving force that seeks justice; rather, it is power that is the driving force, which may synch up with agreed upon notions of "right" and "justice" in certain societies.

Concepts of "right" and "justice" are outfits that power wears when it goes to parties with its sophisticated friends.
:)
User avatar
BigTex
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3858
Joined: Thu 03 Aug 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Graceland
Top

Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby bodigami » Wed 14 May 2008, 18:04:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aflurry', '(')...)
So now we're berating each other for how much or how little we care for morality, suffering, and the end of civilization? we suck. none of us know each other well enough for that, which pretty much guarantees that any comments about someone else's moral turpitude or naiveties are more likely emissions of our own buried fears, for we are each of us our own psychology's bitch.


Buried fears? Why most people think that being free of fears is impossible? It's not impossible. Why fear? Nothing useful or noble can come from fear.
bodigami
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 1921
Joined: Wed 26 Jul 2006, 03:00:00
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Economics & Finance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron