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Forgive me for being irritating.

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby threadbear » Wed 14 May 2008, 00:29:20

but....and it's not as if I don't believe energy and commodities aren't becoming scarce, but you know what really concerns me? It seems that those with the means are going to try to commandeer every last drop of water, oil, and all of the food crops, and ratchet the prices up....Pirate style. I don't like it. I've had the feeling that eventually commodities and energy would be the only game left in town and those who have, would really put the squeeze on those who have not.

Seriously bugs me.
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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby Pops » Wed 14 May 2008, 00:36:08

Bear there is only so much you can do:

Try for independence.
Try for defense.

Try to not worry about what you don't control.

<best I can do>
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby Jack » Wed 14 May 2008, 00:39:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')t seems that those with the means are going to try to commandeer every last drop of water, oil, and all of the food crops, and ratchet the prices up....Pirate style.


I don't know why it bothers you. You and I are quite affluent compared to most inhabitants of this world. Why shouldn't we eat well, live will, and have a pleasant existence? And if a few billion of the poor die, what of it?

Today, I took a drive; something like 100 miles, round trip. The purpose was to enjoy a particularly good chicken fried steak, with a fresh green salad on the side.

Did I squander lots of energy for a frivolous purpose? Of course I did. Did I enjoy it? Yes!

Accept it, Threadbear. The poor are doomed. They cannot be saved, nor should they be. But you can insulate yourself from their fate....

Yo, ho, ho, Matey.

8)
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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby threadbear » Wed 14 May 2008, 01:04:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')t seems that those with the means are going to try to commandeer every last drop of water, oil, and all of the food crops, and ratchet the prices up....Pirate style.



Accept it, Threadbear. The poor are doomed. They cannot be saved, nor should they be. But you can insulate yourself from their fate....

Yo, ho, ho, Matey.

8)


Life can't be completely fair, but it isn't in my nature to ignore what could become murder, suffering and deprivation on a massive scale. It gives my life substance and meaning to simply care. That may seem foolish, but man doesn't live by chicken fried steak alone.

I've done all of my preps, so I can afford the luxury of caring for people I'll never even meet.
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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby roccman » Wed 14 May 2008, 01:11:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', ' ') But you can insulate yourself from their fate....

Yo, ho, ho, Matey.

8)


Nope - you, someday jack, will writhe in pain as you fade to black.

I will too.

Humans are different from the rest of the animal world in as much as we can ponder our own deaths...oddly most all of us don't spend much time thinking about our own doom...rather we believe we will live on forever in a place called heaven.

Do you believe in heaven jack?
"There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby Jack » Wed 14 May 2008, 01:20:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')t gives my life substance and meaning to simply care. That may seem foolish, but man doesn't live by chicken fried steak alone.


Caring has a cost; here I refer not to a monetary cost, but rather to a cost in terms of time, of focus, and of emotional energy. That cost may be too great to bear.

As for the chicken fried steak...you're right. You need breakfast tacos too.

8)
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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby Jack » Wed 14 May 2008, 01:31:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', 'H')umans are different from the rest of the animal world in as much as we can ponder our own deaths...oddly most all of us don't spend much time thinking about our own doom...rather we believe we will live on forever in a place called heaven.

Do you believe in heaven jack?


Do I believe in heaven? Yes, absolutely.

Do I believe I'll be there? No - that is not my destiny.

Will you be there? Depends.

Now you say that most do not think about their own doom, and in that you are correct. I have; from material on Bridey Murphy read before I was a teenager, to other material through the years. I've come to some conclusions.

No, I'm not going to discuss those conclusions. It's best for each of us to find our own path.

Because, Roccman, not only will we writhe in pain as we fade to black - we will do it alone. Even those surrounded by loving family and devoted friends must ultimately face the event alone.

8)
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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby Kingcoal » Wed 14 May 2008, 01:52:40

What exactly is chicken fried steak? Is it a beef steak fried in chicken fat? Pardon my ignorance, but I'm from Philly and I know only of cheesesteaks.
"That's the problem with mercy, kid... It just ain't professional" - Fast Eddie, The Color of Money
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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby joeltrout » Wed 14 May 2008, 02:00:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'W')hat exactly is chicken fried steak?


That is the most un-American question I have ever heard.

Are you from Philly or really from France???

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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby MrBill » Wed 14 May 2008, 04:08:59

It is very tough to contemplate the morality of the totality of all our life decisions both as individuals and as members of society. Our actions both great and small have all contributed to everything good and evil about here and where we are now as well as where we are headed.

We have designed a system that now must go to its logical conclusion. None of us are blameless nor is every bad thing that is going to happen our fault. We have to have the humility to accept that we are not omnipotent. But we are responsible for our own actions. So long as we are not making a bad situation worse, but are trying to be good people and improve the lives of those around us what more can we realistically do?

Beyond our local community and our grandchildren how much control do we have over foreign powers or events that took place before or after our lifetimes? The reality is that none of us would be here in the first place had our forefathers not first and foremost been survivors. Can we take credit for their successes? Are we guilty for their sins?

Will our individual or even collective actions change the trajectory of time or will they quite possibly be nullified in the long-run by the needs and wants of nine to ten billion other individual souls each acting in their own perceived self-interest?

Plus even good intentions have unintended consequences, so how do we even know that we are helping others to deal with the coming long emergency or that our actions are the correct ones? Que sera, sera, but above all, do no harm.
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby MD » Wed 14 May 2008, 06:26:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'W')hat exactly is chicken fried steak? Is it a beef steak fried in chicken fat? Pardon my ignorance, but I'm from Philly and I know only of cheesesteaks.


Steak that's fried chicken style, coated in batter and pan fried in oil.
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby Heineken » Wed 14 May 2008, 07:17:54

T-bear, your OP lacks the usual intellectual sparkle of your stuff.

We already know all this. We know you know it and you know we know it.

Yes, commodities are the only real game in town, and greedy clever people will try to make hay out of them while the haymaking's good. So what is new here?
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby Heineken » Wed 14 May 2008, 07:19:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'W')hat exactly is chicken fried steak? Is it a beef steak fried in chicken fat? Pardon my ignorance, but I'm from Philly and I know only of cheesesteaks.


It's a Southern thing. One of the ways we greasebuckets plug up our arteries double-plus fast.
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby mmasters » Wed 14 May 2008, 11:03:57

Oh yeah, depresses me too how our world has been hijacked and the populace brainwashed into living a lie. Few to none see the box we're all getting shoved into. The truth of it all is worse than any movie.

Only thing we can do about it is try to wake up those that are receptive and keep from becoming a victim of the situation ourselves. In the end we're all just individuals, the collective is only a concept in our mind, so I think that's really what it's about is taking our own individual power over the situation to do the best we can.
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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby Ferretlover » Wed 14 May 2008, 11:17:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Threadbear', 'I')t seems that those with the means are going to try to commandeer every last drop of water, oil, and all of the food crops, and ratchet the prices up....Pirate style. I don't like it.


I don't like it either. What really makes me mad/sad is that that I can't make "them" do the right thing by myself, and that I recognise I don't have the ...ability?... power?... to make enough people understand the problem and convince/force "them" to do the right thing.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'W')hat exactly is chicken fried steak?


Prepared correctly, decandently delicious! Especially with kinda chunky homemade mashed potatoes and white peppered gravy.... yyyuummm!
"Open the gates of hell!" ~Morgan Freeman's character in the movie, Olympus Has Fallen.
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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 14 May 2008, 11:39:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')o I believe in heaven? Yes, absolutely.

Do I believe I'll be there? No - that is not my destiny.


well my view of heaven is a crisp Indian summer morning, a clear mountain stream, my handy dandy #1 fly rod, a handful of dry flys and a few stone flys (just in case), a bottle of good single malt in my satchel and my dog running about nearby chasing the rock rabbits. Definitely my destiny, easily optainable.
Point being I agree with Jack, life's too short to be worrying about impending armagedon. For all you know we could get smacked by a rogue meteorite that would wipe out civilization completely, we could quickly slide into a new glaciation period that would pretty much make all your plans for planting null and void. Enjoy life while you can, worrying about things that might happen is a fools errand...it wastes valuable time and energy.
The world is still a marvelous place....enjoy it, I guaranty it will still be here long after you're gone.

BTW on the subject of chicken fried steak ...I believe most of the world's ill's can be blamed on this invention. George Bush is a big fan of CFS....texas style. Likely his insanity is linked to copious ingestion of this toxic delicacy. Ahmadenjad, Bin Ladin, Chavez, Kim II Sung......the only reason they hate the US is because they have been denied access to the addictive CFS....they crave the gravy and biscuits and chitlins and are willing to do anything to get them. CFS is probably the most significant WMD ever!

now where did I put my medication? :-)
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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby dinopello » Wed 14 May 2008, 11:47:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Threadbear', 'I')t seems that those with the means are going to try to commandeer every last drop of water, oil, and all of the food crops, and ratchet the prices up....Pirate style. I don't like it.


I don't like it either. What really makes me mad/sad is that that I can't make "them" do the right thing by myself, and that I recognise I don't have the ...ability?... power?... to make enough people understand the problem and convince/force "them" to do the right thing.


You sound like me when I first got involved in local community politics and governing. There are those who want to be 'independent' - the lone wolf. I was never one of those. But I did want everyone in my community to do the 'right' thing (i.e. what I know to be right). I learned and was taught that it doesn't work that way. Consensus building is a long and tedious process, although it can be non-linear (change rapidly due to external factors). The process itself builds the community. There is power in interdependent groups. Army's work this way as well as city-states, villages, animal packs (obviously with different mechanisms). Interdependent groups that know how to reach consensus have political, economic, physical power. Anyway, things move in baby steps until there is a crisis, then I believe it will prove to be helpful to have been establishing mature, effective community processes that can be applied.
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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby Ferretlover » Wed 14 May 2008, 11:51:33

Thinking out loud:
I wonder why it always seems easier to determine what is the wrong thing to do/be than to determine what the right thing would do/be?
"Open the gates of hell!" ~Morgan Freeman's character in the movie, Olympus Has Fallen.
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Re: Forgive me for being irritating.

Unread postby skeptik » Wed 14 May 2008, 11:57:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'W')hat exactly is chicken fried steak? Is it a beef steak fried in chicken fat? Pardon my ignorance, but I'm from Philly and I know only of cheesesteaks.


Steak that's fried chicken style, coated in batter and pan fried in oil.

Thanks for the info. That's the most disgusting thing I've heard this week.
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