You either like it or you don't. You do what you do. Everything else is justification, fear or self-promotion. Get out of your head.
A Taoist example might help. Redirecting a trickle of flowing water, may, hundreds of years later, result in a waterfall. When a Taoist acts, he does not expect to see the result of his actions, but even the smallest of actions can have a great effect.
The need to see results of one's action is ego. A great Taoist will never be recognized for his accomplishments nor recognize them himself. That is not to say he has accomplished nothing, it is to say the chain of causality will not be perceived.
A post on Peakoil.com may not appear to have accomplished anything. But, someone, somewhere may read it and gain inspiration which leads to something else, which leads to something else. A great thing may occur in the future that would not have happened without the post. It may not lead to anything. A great Taoist is unconcerned with outcomes.
PeakOil is You
He told me not to talk to him anymore...
Re: He told me not to talk to him anymore...
by Cid_Yama » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 03:17:54
Last edited by Cid_Yama on Sun 09 Mar 2008, 05:59:01, edited 1 time in total.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry
The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
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Re: He told me not to talk to him anymore...
by jboogy » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 04:01:31
Eastbay I couldn't stop swearing if I tried with all my heart, I even let the F-bomb slip probably once every 2 months in front of my teens, I always feel horrible afterwards. The point is it escapes before I know it, so how can I stop what has become almost reflex?
I also admit I derive some pleasure, as well as shame, from treating others who deserve it, with nastiness. It's what they understand, their coin of the realm, would I not be depriving them by withholding from them, communication in the language with which they are most fluent? I want to engage in a free exchange of ideas with my enemies, only through open and honest communication can an understanding be achieved, I'm a giver, I always have been.
What are we full of, Bahama-yama, we like what or we don't? Your vague references confuse and anger me. What do you mean, "get out of my head?" What does any of that have to do with fargin' waterfalls and great Toejamists? Rage taking over.....fury coming alive......HULK SMASH!!!!!!
I also admit I derive some pleasure, as well as shame, from treating others who deserve it, with nastiness. It's what they understand, their coin of the realm, would I not be depriving them by withholding from them, communication in the language with which they are most fluent? I want to engage in a free exchange of ideas with my enemies, only through open and honest communication can an understanding be achieved, I'm a giver, I always have been.
What are we full of, Bahama-yama, we like what or we don't? Your vague references confuse and anger me. What do you mean, "get out of my head?" What does any of that have to do with fargin' waterfalls and great Toejamists? Rage taking over.....fury coming alive......HULK SMASH!!!!!!
Perhaps the population would be less swayed to socialism if we had fewer examples of socialism from our "Free Market Capitalists". -----fiddler dave
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Re: He told me not to talk to him anymore...
by TWilliam » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 05:16:04
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'T')he need to see results of one's action is ego.
Attachment, yes.
As is the need to avoid consequence. If a Zen master is moved in the moment to swear, then he swears; his equanimity remains unperturbed.
"It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
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Re: He told me not to talk to him anymore...
by Cid_Yama » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 06:07:57
<i>we like what or we don't?</i>
Everything. It is the prime mover to action. You think too much.
Everything. It is the prime mover to action. You think too much.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry
The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
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Cid_Yama - Light Sweet Crude
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Re: He told me not to talk to him anymore...
by Angry_Chimp » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 06:24:18
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')That may be true of "sucesses" of ignorant people, but again they're not Nirvana. {If you're noticing something, is that Buddhism is redundant and that Nirvana is mostly explained by what it is NOT.} If you already attained Nirvana, then you don't feel pity towards non Buddhas, you feel so much compassion towards non Buddhas that your only intentionality of becoming eternal is so that you can teach others the Path towards the cessation of suffering. Therefore you have become (this is not mainstream Buddhism but is in accordance with the spirit of it and the etymology of Buddhist words) a Boddhi-satva; someone that trascended even it's own attainment of becoming a Buddha by sharing it and now teaches to others Boddhi-nature.
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')That may be true of "sucesses" of ignorant people, but again they're not Nirvana. {If you're noticing something, is that Buddhism is redundant and that Nirvana is mostly explained by what it is NOT.} If you already attained Nirvana, then you don't feel pity towards non Buddhas, you feel so much compassion towards non Buddhas that your only intentionality of becoming eternal is so that you can teach others the Path towards the cessation of suffering. Therefore you have become (this is not mainstream Buddhism but is in accordance with the spirit of it and the etymology of Buddhist words) a Boddhi-satva; someone that trascended even it's own attainment of becoming a Buddha by sharing it and now teaches to others Boddhi-nature.
As in any religion, the adept "swears by"" it because he has lived it; the therapy is "true" because it is a lived experience explained by concepts that seem perfectly to fit it, that give form to what the patient actually is undergoing.' [271-272].
'It is no wonder that when therapies strip man down to his naked aloneness, to the real nature of experience and the problem of life, they slip into some kind of metaphysic of power and justification from beyond. How can the person be left there trembling and alone? Offer him the possibility of mystical contact with the void of creation, the power of "It," his likeness to God, or at the very least the support of a guru who will vouch for these things in his own overpowering and harmonious-appearing person. Man must reach out for support to dream, a metaphysic of hope that sustains him and makes his life worthwhile. To talk about hope is to give the right focus to the problem. It helps us understand why even the thinkers of great stature who got at the heart of human problems could not rest content with the view of the tragical nature of man's lot that this knowledge gives. It is today well known how Wilhelm Reich [1897 - 1957] continued the Enlightenment in the direction of a fusion of Freud with Marxist social criticism, only to reach finally for Orgone, the primal cosmic energy. Or how Jung wrote an intellectual apologia for the text of ancient Chinese magic, the I Ching. In this, as Rieff has so bitingly argued, these men are of lesser stature than their master the great Stoic Freud [Sigmund Freud 1856 - 1939].32"
'....The critique of guru therapies also comes to rest here: you can't talk about an ideal of freedom in the same breath that you willingly give it up. This fact turned Koestler against the East,39 just as it also led Tillich [Paul Johannes Tillich 1886 - 1965] to argue so penetratingly that Eastern mysticism is not for Western man. It is an evasion of the courage to be; it prevents the absorption of maximum meaninglessness into oneself.40†' [279-280].
"this brings up the second great problem raised by the therapeutic revolution, namely, So What? Even with numerous groups of really liberated people, at their best, we can't imagine that the world will be any pleasanter or less tragic a place. It may even be worse in still unknown ways. As Tillich warned us, New Being, under the conditions and limitations of existence, will only bring into play new and sharper paradoxes, new tensions, and more painful disharmonies—a "more intense demonism." Reality is remorseless because gods do not walk upon the earth; and if men could become noble repositories of great gulfs of nonbeing, they would have even less peace than we oblivious and driven madmen have today. Besides, can any ideal of therapeutic revolutions touch the vast masses of this globe, the modern mechanical men in Russia, the near-billion sheeplike followers in China, the brutalized and ignorant populations of almost every continent? When one lives in the liberation atmosphere of Berkeley, California, or in the intoxications of small doses of unconstriction in a therapeutic group in one's home town, one is living in a hothouse atmosphere that shuts out the reality of the rest of the planet, the way things really are in this world. It is this therapeutic megalomania that must quickly been seen through if we are not to be perfect fools. The empirical facts of the world will not fade away because one has analyzed his Oedipus complex, as Freud so well knew, or because one can make love with tenderness, as so many now believe. Forget it. In this sense again it is Freud's somber pessimism, especially of his later writings such as Civilization and Its Discontents], that keeps him so contemporary. Men are doomed to live in an overwhelmingly tragic and demonic world." [281].
'What are we to make of a creation in which the routine activity is for organisms to be tearing others apart with teeth of all types—biting, grinding flesh, plant stalks, bones between molars, pushing the pulp greedily down the gullet with delight, incorporating its essence into one's own organization, and then excreting with foul stench and gasses the residue. Everyone reaching out to incorporate others who are edible to him [existential cannibalism!]. The mosquitoes bloating themselves on blood, the maggots, the killer-bees attacking with a fury and a demonism, sharks continuing to tear and swallow while their own innards are being torn out—not to mention the daily dismemberment and slaughter in "natural" accidents of all types: an earthquake buries alive 70 thousand bodies in Peru, automobiles make a pyramid heap of over 50 thousand a year in the U.S. alone, a tidal wave washes over a quarter of a million in the Indian Ocean. Creation is a nightmare spectacular taking place on a planet that has been soaked for hundreds of million of years in the blood of all its creatures. The soberest conclusion that we could make about what has actually been taking place on the planet for about three billion years is that it is being turned into a vast pit of fertilizer [see 2909]. But the sun distracts our attention, always baking the blood dry, making things grow over it, and with its warmth giving the hope that comes with the organism's comfort and expansiveness. "Questo sol m'arde, e questo m'innamore”. This sun burns me, and enchants," as Michelangelo put it....' [282-283].
"Modern man is drinking and drugging himself out of awareness, or he spends his time shopping, which is the same thing. As awareness calls for types of heroic dedication that his culture no longer provides for him, society contrives to help him forget....
We can conclude that a project as grand as the scientific-mythical construction of victory over human limitation is not something that can be programmed by science. Even more, it comes from the vital energies of masses of men sweating within the nightmare of creation—and it is not even in man's hands to program. Who knows what form the forward momentum of life will take in the time ahead or what use it will make of our anguished searching. The most that any one of us can seem to do is to fashion something—an object or ourselves—and drop it [stuff it] into the confusion, make an offering of it, so to speak, to the life force."
~Ernest Becker
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Re: He told me not to talk to him anymore...
by Angry_Chimp » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 06:42:24
zensui don't get me wrong I believe that the state of Nirvana can be achieved by those who have the time to meditate and detach from ones ego and if everyone could do it the world would be a better place. But it’s not going to happen. It seems in the end an effective way to push away the realities of being an organismic creature and retreating into the comfort of ones own mind. All I can say is good for you and I wish you the best and kind of wish I could jump in there with you.
==AC
==AC
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Re: He told me not to talk to him anymore...
by Angry_Chimp » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 06:57:36
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jboogy', '[')b]Angryman said;
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f you take away the lie of their life what is left to offer except the reality of existential dread?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f you take away the lie of their life what is left to offer except the reality of existential dread?
You are assigning undeserved depth to the average american mind. If you took away the mundane things that most preoccupy themselves with, they would find different, equally trifling matters with which to occupy themselves.
and
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e said that the point was that even with the highest personal development and liberation, the person comes up against the real despair of the human condition.
I disagree, many have achieved complete happiness and satisfaction while acknowledging the ultimate failure of the human species. I've realized for some time this society and the things it holds dear are shallow and self-defeating races to obtain sensory gratification at the expense of an inner examination and possible ascention to true inner peace. I'm happy and I know we're f*cked.
and
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')
