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WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THAN $100

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THAN $100

Unread postby misterno » Sat 08 Mar 2008, 21:51:51

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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby steam_cannon » Sat 08 Mar 2008, 22:34:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')HY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100
You do know that oil is presently trading over $105? :roll:

(3/8/2008)
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http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/commod ... rices.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')imbo

03-08-08 03:04 AM

Crude has an upper limit. Horses are available; and also that internet thingy.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthrea ... did=120322
Wow, timbo is just a genius... Great blog! :lol:

Seriously though oil prices will be heading a lot higher, regardless of what timbo says...
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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby SILENTTODD » Sat 08 Mar 2008, 23:08:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '<')/div>You do know that oil is presently trading over $105? :roll:


How much is that in Ameros?
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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby misterno » Sat 08 Mar 2008, 23:17:29

Speculation is short term

we are talking about long term

Look at the link in the original post and you will see that anyone can buy oil futures at any time for less than 100 bucks. When I say anyitme it is until 2016

So you might believe in peak oil but the market does not believe in it.

When I say market, I mean buyers and sellers and that is what matters.
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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby FoolYap » Sat 08 Mar 2008, 23:22:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('misterno', 'L')ook at the link in the original post and you will see that anyone can buy oil futures at any time for less than 100 bucks. When I say anyitme it is until 2016

So you might believe in peak oil but the market does not believe in it.

When I say market, I mean buyers and sellers and that is what matters.


"The market" was caught by surprise when oil hit $60, then $80, then $100.

If "the market" thinks oil will still be $100 in another 8 years, IMO they're going to be quite unpleasantly surprised.

--Steve
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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby Gandalf_the_White » Sat 08 Mar 2008, 23:22:35

Just for the sake of discussion plot the price of all of the futures for one day with the date of the futures contract on the horizontal axis and the price on the vertical. Now go back each month and plot a new curve for the new futures. What you will see is that the shape of the curve hardly ever changes but it also never goes down long term for any future contract. Last year there were futures trading at $40. The futures market is a guess, a bet really about the future the reason it trails off after a cerrtain point is that everyone is forced to admit they really don't know what the price of oil is going to be in the future. Noone want to bet on super high oil 16 months out for alot of reasons, and I doubt it even makes sense to bid above todays price on a contract that is a year out. I mean one serious recession and you could see $80. But let us remind ourselves that when we first hit $70 we have a national average for gas over $3. Supposing some gouging $100 should be spaming us for somewhere over for dollars a gallon nationwide, so far it has not hit. The wake up call is going to come in about a month. What you see in the futures market is not a real expectation of the price in the future it is a hedged bet.
I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby steam_cannon » Sat 08 Mar 2008, 23:28:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SILENTTODD', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '<')/div>You do know that oil is presently trading over $105? :roll:

How much is that in Ameros?
20 Ameros (backed by one bushel of wheat) ;)

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We're joking people, maybe...
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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 05:07:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FoolYap', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('misterno', 'L')ook at the link in the original post and you will see that anyone can buy oil futures at any time for less than 100 bucks. When I say anyitme it is until 2016

So you might believe in peak oil but the market does not believe in it.

When I say market, I mean buyers and sellers and that is what matters.


"The market" was caught by surprise when oil hit $60, then $80, then $100.

If "the market" thinks oil will still be $100 in another 8 years, IMO they're going to be quite unpleasantly surprised.

--Steve

And 10 years ago the market believed that oil will always be around $10 a barrel :-D

Here is a quote from reference provided at the begining of this thread by misterno:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')rude has an upper limit. Horses are available; and also that internet thingy.

:-D
So they are going to replace oil with internet :-D
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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby killJOY » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 08:46:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o you might believe in peak oil but the market does not believe in it.



The "market" is a fictional entity. It does not "believe" anything.

People that think this way richly deserve the slamming they are about to get.
Peak oil = comet Kohoutek.
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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby jato » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 10:09:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')HY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100


Maybe in 1913 dollars.


What cost $100 in 1913 would cost $2123.01 in 2007.
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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby Heineken » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 10:31:27

The quoted exchange on elitetrader.com is pretty stupid.

Horses can replace oil? That's all they could really come up with.

I'd like to see that happen out on the Interstate system, or about anywhere else you care to look.

Sure, it can happen with civilization poking up weeds and about 4 billion fewer people.

In any case, oil is so much more than transportation. Just about everything we have is dependent on it directly or indirectly.

Only a fraction of demand is "elastic."

These guys STILL just don't get it.
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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby cipi604 » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 12:15:42

-Knock knock
-Who?
-200$
-Come in!

They don't understand the exponential function.
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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby yesplease » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 17:41:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cipi604', '-')Knock knock
-Who?
-200$
-Come in!

They don't understand the exponential function.
Maybe you two can compare notes?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Professor Membrane', ' ')Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby PeakingAroundtheCorner » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 20:08:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o they are going to replace oil with internet


Yes. The Internet can replace A LOT of oil. How? Well, I make my entire living on the Internet. Taught myself everything I know while I was a sheet metal construction worker. Made good money doing that and make only about 60% of that now.

But, guess what? Now I work at home in my pajamas. What I don't do is pump tons of CO² into the atmosphere sitting in the Dallas/Ft Worth traffic jams on a horrendous daily commute from the exurbs. I'm no longer helping to build what I see to be a doomed civilization. I no longer have the expense of a daily 100-mile round-trip commute, including gas, breakfast at Jack in the Box, lunch from the "roach coach", a three-beer stop at the pub on the way home, Cokes, gum, candy, potato chips, a stop here for a CD, a stop there for a couple of fishing lures for the weekend (you know, stuff I really didn't need but bought anyway on impulse or habit). That's a savings of 30%.

So, for a 10% overall cut in real net income after commuting expenses, I'm not doing too bad at all. I'll take that in order to write my own ticket any day. And I even seem to find a little extra money to put towards preps and I'm growing some of my own food now. But the best thing about it is that I have 3 hours of my day back that was spent getting to and from a jobsite.

Now, I can just hear you saying "but, but, but...EVERYBODY can't work on the Internet." And, to a certain extent you're right. But there are literally THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of jobs that can be done over the Internet by tele-commuting. I would guess that we could probably take 30% of the commuting traffic off America's highways by allowing, wherever practical, employees to stay home to work.

If all those corporate administrative cubicles were moved out of all those buildings and into employees homes, that would reduce carbon emissions, reduce the use of raw materials to build floor space for those cubicles, it would relieve some of the stress on our infrastructure, and it would give our service industry a little elbow room to move around more easily, resulting, perhaps, in a more expedited and efficient system.
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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby Shadizar » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 20:57:45

Now, what you are doing is wonderfull,and most likely the wave of the future.

Unfortunately most of the U.S. energy use notwithstanding personal transportation, comes from the semis that transport all of the goods we enjoy.

What you do will not save us. It will help though.

-Shadizar
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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby FoolYap » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 22:19:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PeakingAroundtheCorner', 'N')ow, I can just hear you saying "but, but, but...EVERYBODY can't work on the Internet." And, to a certain extent you're right. But there are literally THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of jobs that can be done over the Internet by tele-commuting. I would guess that we could probably take 30% of the commuting traffic off America's highways by allowing, wherever practical, employees to stay home to work.


Unfortunately, there are millions upon millions of Indians and Chinese who can do many if not most of those same jobs, perhaps not always at the same level of service, but for a lot less than you're willing to do it. What American employers who can let jobs be done remotely have been increasingly been doing is letting someone overseas do it for a fraction the cost, and telling their American employees to stay home without pay.

--Steve
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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby Heineken » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 22:35:24

The problem with Internet-based jobs is that they're mostly not real. They represent the sort of phony work that has replaced real work, a phenomenon made possible by artificial money and the one-time energy bonanza that is now failing.

They represent the sort of jobs that are going to go bye-bye, along with most of the rest of our saccharine society.
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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby bodigami » Sun 09 Mar 2008, 23:48:24

maybe not tele-commuting itself, but there are efficiency reasons to use broadly Information Technologies for economical cooperation. and IMO, it is a factor that reduces the chances of more wars. the Internet must be preserved in some form, and most of its useful applications doesn't require much bandwidth... cuting off videos and streaming may help to add efficiency.
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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby Aaron » Mon 10 Mar 2008, 13:09:32

Dr. Bakhitari was derided for calling $50/bbl oil... until it hit $50.

This website was derided last year for calling $100/bbl oil... until it hit $100.

Want some advice?

Buy oil futures.
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Re: WHY OIL WILL ALWAYS BE LESS THEN $100

Unread postby Pixie » Mon 10 Mar 2008, 14:02:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('misterno', 'S')peculation is short term

we are talking about long term

Look at the link in the original post and you will see that anyone can buy oil futures at any time for less than 100 bucks. When I say anyitme it is until 2016

So you might believe in peak oil but the market does not believe in it.

When I say market, I mean buyers and sellers and that is what matters.


Then the market is populated by fools. For most of the last four years, futures have traded lower than current prices, but that didn't stop the price from going up steadily for four years.
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