[Fishman]

Ludi, I think you are correct. Potatoes and sweet potatoes go the distance for calories per square foot. Foraging can at best be an add on. Joeltrout, one problem will be fertility of the lawns/landscape. I've had soil samples sent for my lawn (and garden) and added greensand and phosphate rock, the longest lasting sources I could find.

[DomusAlbion]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', 'w')ell population growth is decreasing at 2.1 million people per year and should peak between 2020-2029. That might help things out a bit, if we can make it that long.

[joeltrout]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', ' ') Joeltrout, one problem will be fertility of the lawns/landscape. I've had soil samples sent for my lawn (and garden) and added greensand and phosphate rock, the longest lasting sources I could find.

[kokoda]

The real question is whether you could grow adequate food without fertilizers and pesticides.

Plus of course any complete breakdown of society would mean that people would simply steal all of your crops anyway.

In any post PO world there will probably be disorder until the population level drops to a sustainable level.

[Ludi]

All Ecology Action papers are about growing food without commercial fertilizers or pesticides, so that sort of research has already been done. It is perfectly possible to grow large amounts of produce without commercial ferts and pesticides, it may simply be a bit more difficult or just different. I don't use any of those sorts of products myself. No pest problems to speak of. Soil fertility is increasing every year, as are yields.

[Synthicide]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', 'B')ack at you, dood (your extra special spelling).

I suggest you learn to read (and spell as well).

"Did I say all people in 3rd world nations? No, I said many, which is a true statement, and not contrived of naivity (sic)."

I never said that you said "all". I acknowledged your statement as true, however, I applied the same statement, or logic if you will, to Westerners. In other words you really added nothing to the discussion except to call people names and to be self righteous.

You sound as if you’re a young person, lacking experience of the world as it is and always will be, “World without end. Amen”
A sad state, but you're not going to change it, nor can anyone.

[patience]

Somewhere, in the permaculture thread, I think, I mentioned that 10 years ago USA TODAY staed that the largest acreage of any single crop in the US was GRASS, in lawns. More than corn, soybeans, or wheat. Surely, that much acreage could make a dent in our food needs. Especially in suburbia, where the residents often have a 1/4 acre or so.

[Synthicide]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', 'w')ell population growth is decreasing at 2.1 million people per year and should peak between 2020-2029. That might help things out a bit, if we can make it that long.

[steam_cannon]

Two points here...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kokoda', 'T')he real question is whether you could grow
adequate food without fertilizers and pesticides.

[Fishman]

Perhaps those breaking into your garden would make excellent nitrogen sources for your plants. Lets see, native american used dead fish for their corn.....

[one_more_day]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FoolYap', 'A')s for saving money, I'm not convinced most people can do that, today.

--Steve

[patience]

steam cannon,
My daughter and son in law are planting blackberries around their place. Ever seen an 8 ft high blackberry thicket? Rabbits have to hunt to find a way through it. Barbed wire is pretty cheap, too. and the rusty stuff is free sometimes, when farmers are clearing fencerows.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '
')When the soviet union broke down someone in the family might end
up staying up all night watching the cucumber patch... That's how it
may be for us.

[FoolYap]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('one_more_day', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FoolYap', 'A')s for saving money, I'm not convinced most people can do that, today.

--Steve

[DomusAlbion]

Per our other discussion. Yes, there are some real dicks on this thread, but I suspect they're just talking trash and are not worthy of your high dudgeon and you certainly are not going to convert anybody to your way of thinking by calling them names.

"Much the same way as the the Irish starved to death, as their food was exported out of the country during the potato famine. It's already happening now, with domestic buyers being outbid on their own country's produce."

Sorry to disagree with you again but this is a poor analogy. Ireland at the time was ruled and dominated by a foreign power; the English. The United States is sovereign and not ruled by multinational corporations. Any threat to the general populace would be rectified by legislation and failing that by the people through force of arms and we, as a people, are well armed.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chesire', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chesire', 'I') wouldn't give the average third worlder a bucket of my shit to fertilize their garden.

[DefiledEngine]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I wanted to let them know that many of the people they want dead for their own gain, would gladly share what they have with them. Maybe it would change their thinking.

[virgincrude]

Here's an online petition to be presented to Ban Ki Moon on Wednesday, (if they reach the One Million signatures) telling the leaders gathering there to get their heads out of the corporate feed trough and take concrete measures to stop the ongoing food crisis.

Please take a minute, this organisation is one of the best run activist sites, and believe it or not, these simple actions (signing online petitions) can get results. They rarely solve anything, but often they make things better. Isn't that better than nothing?

avaaz.org Stop the Food Crisis

[Ludi]

Stop the Food Crisis: Promote birth control.

http://www.populationconnection.org/

[vetusfirma]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('virgincrude', 'H')ere's an online petition to be presented to Ban Ki Moon on Wednesday, (if they reach the One Million signatures) telling the leaders gathering there to get their heads out of the corporate feed trough and take concrete measures to stop the ongoing food crisis.

Please take a minute, this organisation is one of the best run activist sites, and believe it or not, these simple actions (signing online petitions) can get results. They rarely solve anything, but often they make things better. Isn't that better than nothing?

avaaz.org Stop the Food Crisis