[FreakOil]

If I'm not mistaken, the hydrocarbons on Titan are simpler ones like methane, which could have been formed more easily abiotically than petroleum. As vast as the universe is, I would be surprised if petroleum hasn't been formed somewhere through geophysical/atmospheric conditions. The Earth's petroleum is surely not abiotic, though.

[kpeavey]

remember to double those launch costs to account for reentry. You can probably double them again just to get the basic infrastructure in place to begin to harvest that material. then account for crew support and supply, the energy required to undertake such an endeavor, time needed to develop appropriate technology. Manning the actual missions should not be a problem, I'd go in a heartbeat. What an adventure!

[BigTex]

No, no, no, this can work.

I heard they are getting Bruce Willis, Ben Affleck and that big black guy in the leopard underwear from Armageddon to fly out there with a drilling rig as we speak.

Problem solved.

[sicophiliac]

Hell while your at it why not scoop some hydrogen out of Saturn's atmosphere and use that for fuel.

[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', 'H')ehehe Nicholai, I think the Dude is being ironic.

[mos6507]

This has probably been posted before, but it's as good a description of the pointlessness of the infinite growth paradigm as any. This is assuming there is no die-off and we head off to the stars in Trek-like utopian fashion.

http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html

[Concerned]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', '
')Launch costs are as low as $4,300/kg on the Proton rocket, what are we waiting for?

[MD]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'T')his has probably been posted before, but it's as good a description of the pointlessness of the infinite growth paradigm as any. This is assuming there is no die-off and we head off to the stars in Trek-like utopian fashion.

http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html

[dorlomin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', '-')->STORY<--

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')The new findings from the study led by Ralph Lorenz, Cassini radar team member from the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory, USA, are reported in the 29 January 2008 issue of the Geophysical Research Letters.

"Titan is just covered in carbon-bearing material—it’s a giant factory of organic chemicals," said Lorenz. “This vast carbon inventory is an important window into the geology and climate history of Titan.”

[basil_hayden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kpeavey', 'r')emember to double those launch costs to account for reentry. You can probably double them again just to get the basic infrastructure in place to begin to harvest that material. then account for crew support and supply, the energy required to undertake such an endeavor, time needed to develop appropriate technology. Manning the actual missions should not be a problem, I'd go in a heartbeat. What an adventure!

[dorlomin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', ' ')Colonization, baby!

[eXpat]

Hydrocarbons mine, earthlings!

[Nicholai]

If anybody actually buys in to something like that, they're living a fantasy

[funzone36]

{thread merged by emersonbiggins}

Fossil fuels do not have to come from dead organisms because the moon Titan has dozens times more fossil fuels than the Earth has.

[Yahoo] Titan Has More Oil Than Earth: http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20080213/ ... wKya8PLBIF

Titan is too cold for life to exist. And even if some life existed in the past, how can they provide so much more fossil fuels than Earth when dinosaurs once existed on this planet?


EDIT: Sorry, I seriously did not know there was already a thread about this since I do not regularly visit this site. Please merge this thread with the other thread.

[funzone36]

Thanks for answering the question for the thread I created.

Now, even though I don't visit this site regularly, I can tell that this forum has way more sarcasm than any other forum I visited. I know the majority of you guys agree with each other but too much sarcasm can get annoying. You know what I mean?

[FreakOil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('funzone36', 'T')hanks for answering the question for the thread I created.

Now, even though I don't visit this site regularly, I can tell that this forum has way more sarcasm than any other forum I visited. I know the majority of you guys agree with each other but too much sarcasm can get annoying. You know what I mean?

[mididoctors]

You don't have to go to Titan as there are more Methane hydrates on Earth than fossil fuels ... mind you accessing them from Titan may be easier.

moreover the fossil fuels are abiotic because Methane is on Titan argument=wrong

there is energy everywhere but allowing it to be freed up is the issue. pesky 3 laws etc...

I could grab a headline


My kitchen table contains more energy than all the energy ever used by Humanity!

which is true but hardly a solution to resource depletion.

Boris
London

[mididoctors]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kpeavey', 'r')emember to double those launch costs to account for reentry. You can probably double them again just to get the basic infrastructure in place to begin to harvest that material. then account for crew support and supply, the energy required to undertake such an endeavor, time needed to develop appropriate technology. Manning the actual missions should not be a problem, I'd go in a heartbeat. What an adventure!

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', ' ')Colonization, baby!

[kpeavey]

If we did succeed in harvesting hydrocarbons from Titan and bringing them to earth, there is the problem of increasing the earth's mass. Change the mass, change the rotation rate, lunar attraction, solar attraction, which all affect tides, seasons, climate and weather patterns.

Maintaining the balance of mass would be necessary. For each ton brought into the earth system, a ton would have to be expelled. Sending it back to Titan would keep the mass equation constant. Figure those launch costs again.

If the mass problem is solved, there is the energy infusion problem. Bringing in enough material to make the project economical and produce a net EROEI would require collossal volumes be involved. The energy released from these volumes would surely upset the natural ecosystem through waste heat. See Fermi law #2. A means of sequestering heat energy would be required, followed by a means of getting rid of it into space, or at least out of the earth system.

Also, there is the issue of pollutants, but this is answered with sending the stuff back to Titan as part of the conservation of mass problem.