[JRP3]

I really hate all these air car BS stories, it's so friggin obvious how lame this is. First of all you have to generate electricity to power an electrical air compressor. An air compressor is basically an ICE without fuel, you have all the losses involved in an ICE and much of the mechanical complexity and moving parts. Then that compressed air has to be stored in a very strong tank that is costly to manufacture and not very energy dense. Then that compressed air is decompressed in what is essentially another ICE without fuel, again with the same inefficiencies, complexity, manufacturing costs, etc. Not to mention that no real world demonstration of this technology has shown any real range or power. Take the same weight vehicle with an electric motor and some batteries and the power and efficiency is much much higher, and the refueling infrastructure already exists at everyone's house and business.
Also, let me stop anyone who might be tempted to try and argue about batteries and disposal: Lead acid batteries are valuable and recyclable, and Lithium are the same, as well as being non toxic and much longer lasting.
Smaller lighter vehicles, automated lithium manufacturing, lowered travel expectations can make EV's quite viable. Changing the laws of physics would be needed to make air cars viable.

[yesplease]

Air cars on air are nice if there's extra electricity generation capacity in urban, and provide for urban transport at much reduced cost compared to BEVs because batteries are pricey. Unlike BEVs, they don't need another powerplant to get the range extension associated with fossil fuels, so... Whatever they lack in energy efficiency due to compressing air, they make up in cost.

[JRP3]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'W')hatever they lack in energy efficiency due to compressing air, they make up in cost.

[yesplease]

Compare the cost of a small ICE drivetrain and storage tank to an electric drivetrain and periodic battery pack replacement. Batteries are just too expensive to compete with something like this unless the cost/mile comes down significantly.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JRP3', 'I') really hate all these air car BS stories, it's so friggin obvious how lame this is. physics would be needed to make air cars viable.

[JRP3]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'C')ompare the cost of a small ICE drivetrain and storage tank to an electric drivetrain and periodic battery pack replacement. Batteries are just too expensive to compete with something like this unless the cost/mile comes down significantly.

[JRP3]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JRP3', 'I') really hate all these air car BS stories, it's so friggin obvious how lame this is. physics would be needed to make air cars viable.

[EnergyUnlimited]

I think, both EV and air vehicle are not going to be replacement for ICE.
Electric vehicle will fall fool of expensive battery technology.
There are some plans to bring EV called Volt within 3 years from now on, but price estimate is now in range $30-40k, at least according to one article which I recently have red.
On the top of this price tag it is likely that batteries will rather be leased then sold.
All this suggest that large scale production is unlikely.

On the other hand air car has far better prospect because of low price of components and easy mass production
However it likely to overload electric grid and contribute to further pollution.
Additional bonus is that it would provide free air conditioning, if used in India or other hot country. That is because of very cold exhaust air.

So overall air car is a cheap "more of the same" idea (lets drive and make pollution green ) and EV is pie on the sky idea due to unresolved battery problems.

It was claimed on this forum that turning transport electric would require increasing of electricity production by 20%, assuming EV.
So in the case of air car it would be necessary to increase electricity production by 60-70%.
That is assuming full global conversion and current level of car use.

[threadbear]

Why do I get the impression some of you people just make sh** up as you go along? Your objections are whiny and you're not backing them up with anything, other than dismissing, out of hand, every alternative proposed. What's the matter, the future doesn't look grim enough for you already?

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'W')hy do I get the impression some of you people just make sh** up as you go along? Your objections are whiny and you're not backing them up with anything, other than dismissing, out of hand, every alternative proposed. What's the matter, the future doesn't look grim enough for you already?

[WisJim]

Industry uses LOTS of compressed air to power things. Factories don't worry about the weight of compressed air tanks, either. But, it is often considered that a typical compressed air system is less than 20% efficient. The compressed air to run a 1 hp air motor can take 7 or 8 horsepower, and that is in a large efficient system.

As has been mentioned many times, using compressed air as a motive force is not energy efficient.

Compressed air costs:
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/business/i ... d_air1.pdf

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WisJim', 'I')ndustry uses LOTS of compressed air to power things. Factories don't worry about the weight of compressed air tanks, either. But, it is often considered that a typical compressed air system is less than 20% efficient. The compressed air to run a 1 hp air motor can take 7 or 8 horsepower, and that is in a large efficient system.

As has been mentioned many times, using compressed air as a motive force is not energy efficient.

Compressed air costs:
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/business/i ... d_air1.pdf

[JRP3]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')
And this is something that r&d can't easily get around? If it is so inefficient why is it being proposed to be developed en masse?

[JRP3]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '
')Electric vehicle will fall fool of expensive battery technology.
There are some plans to bring EV called Volt within 3 years from now on, but price estimate is now in range $30-40k, at least according to one article which I recently have red.
On the top of this price tag it is likely that batteries will rather be leased then sold.
All this suggest that large scale production is unlikely.

[yesplease]

My bad about the ICE thing, I got mixed up. What I meant to say is the Aircar can run on liquid fuels as well...
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JRP3', 'S')econdly you're trying to compare mass marketed ICE vehicles with small volume EV's. Mass produce Lithium batteries which will last the life of the vehicle and maybe beyond and your argument completely falls apart.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'I')t was claimed on this forum that turning transport electric would require increasing of electricity production by 20%, assuming EV.
So in the case of air car it would be necessary to increase electricity production by 60-70%.
That is assuming full global conversion and current level of car use.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'I') don't see how use could stay the same. An air car has only decent range in the city due to reduced energy requirements. Any more than that and it would have to switch over to a liquid fuel, so there's no way we would see a 60-70% increase in electricity production because there's no way air cars could travel that distance on compressed air.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JRP3', 'F')urther, batteries will not be leased unless they retain value beyond the life of the vehicle, which may be possible, (Altairnano), but is not so at this time.

[Frank]

If this is such a wonderful idea then why aren't there thousands of them running around? Is there a Youtube video of one? Is there a forum where we can ask questions to anyone who's ever used one? Just because someone's trying to develop an idea doesn't mean it's practical and efficient! After all we already know how to compress air, how to store it and how to make an air motor. Compressed air is EVERYWHERE! How could it be so hard?! I'm not from Missouri - but show me!

[WisJim]

The reason that I mentioned the industrial uses of compressed air, and its inefficiency, is that increasing efficiency of compressed air production and use is, and has been for decades, a major concern and focus of industry. They save money and increase profits by increasing compressed air efficiency, and they are doing the best they can already.