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The Spreading Global Food Crisis Thread pt 2 (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby pup55 » Tue 29 Jan 2008, 23:41:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'g')rossly corrupt and incompetent governments


True enough.

It is obviously not the water, or the weather, that makes one half of this rock more or less stable, and the other half, a pending catastrophe.
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby frankthetank » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 00:07:31

Interesting stuff Pup. I thought you would chime in :) Ugly situation only going to turn uglier. They really can't go anywhere except the other side of the island.
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby Ferretlover » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 00:13:10

I am not familiar with the geography of the island; isn't the Dom Rep worried about disease?
If land is so limited, with the other half be consumed by graves?
"Open the gates of hell!" ~Morgan Freeman's character in the movie, Olympus Has Fallen.
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby SchroedingersCat » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 00:36:02

And yet...
Hotel Montana

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ATURDAY NIGHTS - AROUND THE POOL - TI BOBECHE
- COMES WITH THE COUNTLESS LITTLE HANGING LIGHTS
CHARACTERISTICALLY USED IN THE HAITIAN COUTRYSIDE.
MUSIC IS PROVIDED BY ANOTHER TYPICAL HAITIAN BAND THAT
WILL MAKE YOU DISCOVER THE TRUE HAITIAN AMBIANCE.
SUNDAY NIGHTS - TASTE OUR GRILLED MEAT OR FISH AT THE
SUNDAY BUCCANNEER. ON SUNDAY NIGHT CREOLE BUFFET
SELF-SERVICE.


I've stayed here. Quite nice, actually. You wouldn't notice the starving hordes if you didn't drive past them on the way from the airport.
Civilization is a personal choice.
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby frankthetank » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 00:45:52

Here we go...

Image

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hen people can't afford food, they buy these clay pancakes, flavored with salt and spices. They eat them because they are so hungry.
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby pup55 » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 00:46:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'g')eography of the island


This place ought to be an absolute paradise. It is mostly mountainous, but no compelling natural or geographical reason for these conditions to develop, except that maybe conditions are too good, and keep people from thinking about what they are doing from a reproductive standpoint. Ireland, for example is roughly the same size as hispanola, has roughly the same amount of arable land, but only about 1/4 the number of people.

Ireland, of course, had its dieoff and mass exodus in the 19th century. Maybe they learned something.

Silly humans.
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Re: Yet Another "End of cheap food" article (YAEOC

Unread postby cube » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 01:02:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', 'O')r we could eliminate the Ethanol subsidies and the food problem will go away tomorrow.
Most politicians are pro-ethanol. Some are neutral and a small number are straight up anti. Then again high food prices are not really their concern. :wink:
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby cube » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 01:16:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', '.')..
Ireland, of course, had its dieoff and mass exodus in the 19th century. Maybe they learned something.

Silly humans.
No they didn't learn anything they just got lucky. :)

BTW Ireland is on my list of places to visit before I die. It looks like such a pretty country.
Getting back to Haiti I'm surprised the people haven't taken the "Easter Island" approach.
I'd actually give it serious thought if in the same position.
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby lawnchair » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 02:18:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', '
')They are trying to support 1100 people per arable square km, about five times that of the US.


And again, at 1% growth the US will have 5x its current population in... 162 years. A ways off, I guess. But, we'd stop exporting food and making ethanol long before that (export wheatland model?).

Not that that's going to happen (well, assuming some border restraint). The US will stop growing in population (and in that nebulous holy-grail 'growth') sooner than that. A good thing, though just about every assumption has to change, because every assumption of human history to date has come from "grow... grow at all costs".

However, to get from Haiti to sustainable? Even aggressive family planning wouldn't do much. You look at the projected population pyramids... and you realize... well, that ain't gonna happen either. Charity for such countries will dry up with surplus oil, and that's gonna be brutal.
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby Concerned » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 06:50:59

WOW what happened to comparative advantage and all that? I mean this should be a free market paradise.

If it were communist governed this story would be all over the MSM and how a good healthy dose of market forces would be just the tonic for them :roll:

Lets face it folks we're going down. HARD !!
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-Italian Proverb
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby Ebyss » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 08:53:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', '
')
Ireland, of course, had its dieoff and mass exodus in the 19th century. Maybe they learned something.

Silly humans.


Please don't forget that Ireland was still producing enough food to feed it's people - but the British landlords exported it to feed their pockets. The Irish were not permitted to grow any food except potatoes, by penalty of eviction - some food and shelter is better than no food and no shelter.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')o they didn't learn anything they just got lucky.


Speaking for my people: we did learn something, and kicked the f*ckers out.
We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas.

I am only one. I can only do what one can do. But what one can do, I will do. -- John Seymour.
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby JJ » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 11:06:38

I posted this on another forum and got a response from someone in Hollywood, Ca. "thats what those people get for continuing to reproduce when they can't feed themselves..."
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby Starvid » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 11:38:47

It seems Haitis big problem is the Haitians. Maybe the country should elect itself another people?
Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby Chesire » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 12:28:44

This thread made me hungry. Off to get a scrumptious plate of breakfast goodies. :lol:
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 13:35:24

Image

These people live in horrible conditions and their country is the poorest in the entire western hemisphere.

Actually, the conditions are roughly comparable to Africa. And the island is mostly full of Africans who have been treated the same way (or worse) than the Africans of Africa.

So...it shouldn't surprise anyone.

Apparently, a violent slave revolt leads to 200 years of brutal dictatorship and poverty. Who'd have thunk it?
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby thor » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 14:39:33

There are large populations in this world living sedentary lives. Could it be the mentality of the general population why this country is such a dump? Blaming others or history is of course the easy rout but it doesn't provide a constructive answer.
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby Pixie » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 14:45:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SILENTTODD', 'H')aiti is not a fair example. It is a densely populated half of an island, Hispaniola that has had a series of grossly corrupt and incompetent governments approved by the United States for at least the last 100 years.

It may very well be the Haiti half of the island is beyond its carrying capacity. But the other half of the island, the Dominican Republic, is never mentioned when the subject of Haiti is brought up. Extremely poor also, but no where near the magnitude of problems in Haiti.


What in that assessment makes Haiti not a fair example?
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby lateStarter » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 18:10:15

For those who are new to this Haiti thing, I would suggest reading chapter 11 in Jared Diamond's book 'Collapse. Actually, I would suggest reading the entire book. Don't get put off by the first couple of chapters. I was initially put off by the pace, but when I reached the end of chapter 1, I saw where he was going... I stuck with it and was glad that I did.
We have been brought into the present condition in which we are unable neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them. - Livy
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby yesplease » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 21:50:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pixie', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SILENTTODD', 'H')aiti is not a fair example. It is a densely populated half of an island, Hispaniola that has had a series of grossly corrupt and incompetent governments approved by the United States for at least the last 100 years.

It may very well be the Haiti half of the island is beyond its carrying capacity. But the other half of the island, the Dominican Republic, is never mentioned when the subject of Haiti is brought up. Extremely poor also, but no where near the magnitude of problems in Haiti.


What in that assessment makes Haiti not a fair example?
Because it's grossly corrupt, the population on the edge has very little in the way of a buffer to deal with any changes. This is not indicative of the rest of the world, at least in terms of magnitude.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Professor Membrane', ' ')Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
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Re: Food too expensive, time to eat dirt

Unread postby oilluber » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 23:42:06

dirt will now be used in the official calculation of CPI,
along with LCD TV's and PC's.
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