[POAlex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '
')It sounds like you are in the Hell is a literal place where you actually go and suffer for eternity camp. If that perspective makes you feel better about what you believe, that's great. For me, I don't find the terrifying images to be a good springboard for a faith that gives me a feeling of wholeness and meaning.

My sense is that Jesus's message stands on its own without the threat of eternal suffering as the alternative if you choose a different way.

[Grifter]

To paraphrase dawkins, there is no difference between a non existent bad place and a non existent good place.

This god character though, what a joker. To give people free will and then make a load of rules that we have to obey.

I suppose eternity must get boring.

[POAlex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grifter', 'T')his god character though, what a joker. To give people free will and then make a load of rules that we have to obey.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('POAlex', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grifter', 'T')his god character though, what a joker. To give people free will and then make a load of rules that we have to obey.

[SpringCreekFarm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FreakOil', 'H')ell is eternity alone in a room with POAlex.

[Byron100]

Just a couple of thoughts I want to add to this discussion:

Alex, you say that the only way to reach Heaven is by being exposed to the Gospel and professing faith in Jesus Christ, and this is how God shows his love for us for providing a way to be forgiven for our sins. However, if God is as loving and caring as you say He is, what about all those millions and millions of people who were born before Christ? Did they get the shaft just because of their unfortunate place in history? Or how about all those millions and millions of people who lived and died in the post-Christ era, having never been presented with a single opportunity to even hear of the Gospel? It's a well-known fact of how long it took for the Christian message to spread throughout the world, and it wasn't until the 20th Century that the majority of the world's population had a chance to be exposed to the "Good News."

So, does that mean that all those people are suffering an eternity in Hell for something that was totally no fault of their own? That seems a tad unfair to me, as they weren't even given a *chance* to hear of the Gospel, let alone being able profess faith in Christ so they can to Heaven instead of Hell. Alex, I'd really like for you to take a few moments to let this sink in. God just wouldn't be so maliciously unfair to allow so many millions of people to suffer eternal agony *through no fault of their own*. If that were to be true, I want no part of that... a faith like Buddhism would be a much better alternative than Christianity.

As far as my spiritual beliefs go, I do believe that God (or the "oneness" that defines all life, or the force that creates order out of chaos as opposed to the force that makes chaos out of order), *wants* us to have second chances to evolve into purer states of spiritual being. Instead of being a one-up deal in which one's eternal fate rests on the actions (and just plain luck and circumstance) of a single lifetime, I believe life is a series of transitions from one state to another, progressing to higher levels over time, i.e, reincarnation. If I was a brutal wife-beater in a previous life, chances are, I'd be born into a life in which I was on the receiving end of an abusive husband, so I'd *learn* the terrible consequences of my sin. To me, that is what Hell really is...having to live through the consequences of your own sins. And yes, that is an awful thing to experience, which is why people came up with such a powerful analogy of suffering, as it's something that just best to be avoided!

But I really, really don't think there is a place of eternal suffering...just enough to even the score of one's sins and then the opportunity to do better next time...otherwise, what is the point of any of this? Of course, I can't "prove" any of this, but neither can you, Alex, so we're even on that score...hehe.

Like I've said in the past, there's one, sure-fire way to know for sure about any of this, and we will *all* get this chance at some point or another....

[Aaron]

A man dies and goes to Heaven. At the Pearly Gates, Angel Gabriel asks, "So...what's your name?" To which the man replies, "Joe."
Gabriel checks the Book but doesn't find his name. So he sends Joe straight to hell.

In hell, Joe meets with the Devil and asks, "What the hell? I'm supposed to be in Heaven.." The Devil cuts him off and says, "Yeah, yeah. You're here, now. So.. Listen, Do you smoke? You smoke at all?" Joe considers it and says, "yeah...That's actually what killed me."
"Good, good." said the Devil, "Then you're going to Love Mondays. That's all we do here. Smoke, smoke, smoke, every Monday. You'll love Mondays."

Then the Devil asks, "What about poker? You, uh..you play poker at all, by any chance?" Joe thinks about it and responds
"Yeah! I love poker. I used to be a professional poker player."
The Devil nods his approval and says, "Great. You're going to LOVE Tuesdays, then. That's all we do, here, just play poker all day and all night. Poker, poker, poker. You're really going to enjoy it."

By this time Joe is really digging this place, hell. He's actually considering permanently residing here.

Then the Devil asks, "You gay, Joe? You swing for the other team at all?"
Confused, Joe considers this for a moment then hesitantly responds, "No......"
"OOh." Replied the Devil, "You're going to HATE Wednesdays, then."

[Aaron]

Oh yeah...

If you believe in eternal punishment...

... you're already in hell.

[lateStarter]

POAlex,
You stated that:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')... and the penalty is death.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('POAlex', '
')
He's reminded of God's Holy Law, the Ten Commandments. He's reminded of all the times he had lied, stolen, committed adultery in his heart with women on the internet, blasphemed God's Holy Name, coveted, hated, and mocked God who had graciously provided everything for him. He's reminded of His wife's pleas for him to repent and trust in Jesus. He remembers how his wife told him that Jesus, the perfect and Holy Saviour, bled and died in Steve's place to pay the death penalty Steve owed for his sins.

[oowolf]

"l'enfer, c'est les autres,( Hell is other people)" Jean-Paul Charles Aymard Sartre; Huis-clos ("No Exit"). No truer words were ever spoken.

And by the way, I score 38 on the McCroskey Introversion Scale:
http://www.jamescmccroskey.com/measures ... ersion.htm

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oowolf', '"')l'enfer, c'est les autres,( Hell is other people)" Jean-Paul Charles Aymard Sartre; Huis-clos ("No Exit"). No truer words were ever spoken.

And by the way, I score 38 on the McCroskey Introversion Scale:
http://www.jamescmccroskey.com/measures ... ersion.htm

[Mahmoud]

This discussion reminds me of an entertainment writer's story about my favourite movie, "It's a Wonderful Life". She wrote that given her choices, she'd prefer life in the mythical Pottersville, the hellish town of fighting, drinking and whoring, than the pleasant town of Bedford Falls from which it morphed. So, maybe some of the worse element will end up in their element in hell.

By the way, its revealed to the main character that Bedford Falls would have become Pottersville were it not for his savings and loan business and his generosity.

[POAlex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateStarter', 'P')OAlex,
You stated that:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')... and the penalty is death.

[leal]

Is Hell cold or warm?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')irst, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different Religions that exist in the world today. Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added. This gives two possibilities:

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

[Flowerr]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'M')y discussion with clueless over the last couple of weeks where he found it necessary to point out to me several times that I was going to hell, got me thinking. Out here in Montana, there's a bumper sticker that is popular. It says, "Montana sucks! Now go home and tell all your friends." So I started thinking, what if that's what happened with hell? What if hell is the last unspoiled wilderness of the afterworld? Satan, being a conscientious caretaker, doesn't want a bunch of Christians showing up, cutting down all the forests, killing all the locals, building strip malls, etc. So he circulates this idea amongst the Christians that it's an awful place. Instead of Palm trees and sandy beaches, he tells them all these silly stories about lakes of fire, eternal agony, etc. Being basically pretty gullible and superstitious, the Christians lap it up and vow that they're NEVER going to hell. So what do you think? Am I on to something or am I going to burn in eternal agony?

[hubbertspeak7777777]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('POAlex', 'H')ell ain't a bad place to be? Hell gets a bad rap? Hell is pure fiction?

Let's consider a day in Hell.

Steve is getting ready for bed. He's flipping through the channels as his wife goes upstairs to pray before bed. Steve mocks her as he usually does. He shuts off the TV and goes to get a glass of water. As he puts it back, he notices a note from his wife on the fridge. He reads it - "Steve, please listen to me about Jesus."

Immediately he crumples it up and finishes drinking his water. "This is the New Age, didn't you know that I'm a god?", he says.

On the way up the stairs Steve feels something unusual. He notices a sharp pain in his chest. Before he can say anything, he falls back down the stairs. "No, I'm only 32 years old", he thinks to himself. As his wife comes screaming, she finds Steve dead on the floor.

Steve awakens to realize he is falling, falling, falling. Things are getting darker and darker and darker. The smell is getting worse and worse and worse. The heat is getting hotter and hotter and hotter. Steve lands in a pit of fire and screams in agony. Horror enters his mind in realizing where he is. The blackness is so thick, he can barely see in front of himself. To his horror, he's surrounded by people in torment. He thinks to himself, this is horrible, what did I do to deserve this?

Then he's reminded - this is eternal justice. He thinks, "for what!?" He's reminded of God's Holy Law, the Ten Commandments. He's reminded of all the times he had lied, stolen, committed adultery in his heart with women on the internet, blasphemed God's Holy Name, coveted, hated, and mocked God who had graciously provided everything for him. He's reminded that God did not create Hell for man but to punish Satan and his angels. He's reminded of His wife's pleas for him to repent and trust in Jesus. He remembers how his wife told him that Jesus, the perfect and Holy Saviour, bled and died in Steve's place to pay the death penalty Steve owed for his sins. He remembers how God gave Steve His Word to read and he ignored it. He remembers how God gave him everything while he wanted nothing to do with Him. Steve sobs as he remembers how much God loved him to offer him a pardon through His Son. He can't believe he rejected it! Now God has no choice but to give him eternal justice. Steve is getting what he always wanted - an eternity without God. Steve screams out for help. He curses Satan, realizing the myth of him ruling this place was a lie from Satan himself. His fate will be the same as Steves! He curses the day he was born. His mind cannot comprehend what's happening and he comes to a horrific conclusion - this burning is never going to end. Oh what he'd give for that glass of water he just drank. But there's no water, no rest, no hope, no second chance, no relief, no friends, nothing but weeping and gnashing of teeth, forever. Its God's eternal justice for the sins of Steve's eternal soul.

Oh, what would Steve give for one more chance? Just one more chance to repent and accept God's free pardon in Christ.

Its too late.

Justice is served.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hubbertspeak7777777', 'H')ow the fuck can you call that justice?

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Flowerr', 'N')o, you just picked up the illuminaughty lie so people can be comfotable.

[Flowerr]

You are not.

They don't admit it.