[smallpoxgirl]

My discussion with clueless over the last couple of weeks where he found it necessary to point out to me several times that I was going to hell, got me thinking. Out here in Montana, there's a bumper sticker that is popular. It says, "Montana sucks! Now go home and tell all your friends." So I started thinking, what if that's what happened with hell? What if hell is the last unspoiled wilderness of the afterworld? Satan, being a conscientious caretaker, doesn't want a bunch of Christians showing up, cutting down all the forests, killing all the locals, building strip malls, etc. So he circulates this idea amongst the Christians that it's an awful place. Instead of Palm trees and sandy beaches, he tells them all these silly stories about lakes of fire, eternal agony, etc. Being basically pretty gullible and superstitious, the Christians lap it up and vow that they're NEVER going to hell. So what do you think? Am I on to something or am I going to burn in eternal agony?

[dbruning]

Clever premise

Odds are pretty good if there is a hell a large portion of us will be seeing it eventually

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbruning', 'O')dds are pretty good if there is a hell a large portion of us will be seeing it eventually

[Ludi]

You scared me there for a second!

[Plantagenet]

There's no sex in Montana, so hell must be more like Nevada.

[I_Like_Plants]

Hell's supposed to be a not-nice place, and Heaven the nice one. So Hell would be Vegas.

[dinopello]

Hell ain't a bad place to be.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

I think hell totally gets a bad rap.

As Alister Crowley famously quoted (I think it was Elphias Levi who originally said it, they are both very famous occultists) "You can make a heaven of hell or a hell of heaven." and you don't have to wait till you die, you can make your own life hell long before then.

Back in my 20's I learned that I could get revenge for being betrayed or slighted, but that if I just watched long enough, people would usually screw themselves a lot worse than I ever could have. Then my karma is a lot clearer.

[emersonbiggins]

Hell is more like C) pure fiction.

[PrairieMule]

[BigTex]

Hell is as real as the imagination of the one thinking about it. Does it get a bad rap? Probably not. It's perceived as bad because it is bad. It serves as an allegory for the consequences of doing certain things that people feel bad about having done.

The idea of burning for eternity is so awful it's almost comical. I mean that's a pretty heavy penalty for simply going with primal instincts or desires when you're not supposed to.

Think about if you went out into the wild and after watching a chimp have sex with about nine other chimps in one day you informed him that he would be suffering for eternity for his adulterous acts; it would look like an x-rated Far Side cartoon. No one would take that seriously, especially the chimp. When it comes to us, though, we get pretty rattled with all that hell stuff.

There are undoubtedly consequences for good and bad acts, but I'm not sure that eternal lakes of fire are to be taken literally (I may be wrong). I think that karma is real and a lot more subtle than the devil with the pitchfork and fire resort for sinners.

For the Christian crowd, note that there is no devil or after life in the Old Testament. The snake in the Garden in Genesis was just a snake; it doesn't say that the snake was Satan. Satan, hell and eternal life (to be spent in Heaven or Hell) after death are basically New Testament concepts. I didn't notice that for a long time. I don't even recall Jesus talking about going to Hell. I think Jesus just said that if you don't follow his teachings you will be lost, which is probably true, in that rejecting kindness, humility, patience and unconditional love doesn't leave too much to hang on to spiritually (just my opinion).

I love those depictions of Hell in those religious booklets they hand out. Big lakes of fire with Satan at the end of a dock throwing the sinners in the fire. I saw one of those when I was a kid and it absolutely scared the crap out of me.

[PrairieMule]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '
')I love those depictions of Hell in those religious booklets they hand out. Big lakes of fire with Satan at the end of a dock throwing the sinners in the fire. I saw one of those when I was a kid and it absolutely scared the crap out of me.

[POAlex]

Hell ain't a bad place to be? Hell gets a bad rap? Hell is pure fiction?

Let's consider a day in Hell.

Steve is getting ready for bed. He's flipping through the channels as his wife goes upstairs to pray before bed. Steve mocks her as he usually does. He shuts off the TV and goes to get a glass of water. As he puts it back, he notices a note from his wife on the fridge. He reads it - "Steve, please listen to me about Jesus."

Immediately he crumples it up and finishes drinking his water. "This is the New Age, didn't you know that I'm a god?", he says.

On the way up the stairs Steve feels something unusual. He notices a sharp pain in his chest. Before he can say anything, he falls back down the stairs. "No, I'm only 32 years old", he thinks to himself. As his wife comes screaming, she finds Steve dead on the floor.

Steve awakens to realize he is falling, falling, falling. Things are getting darker and darker and darker. The smell is getting worse and worse and worse. The heat is getting hotter and hotter and hotter. Steve lands in a pit of fire and screams in agony. Horror enters his mind in realizing where he is. The blackness is so thick, he can barely see in front of himself. To his horror, he's surrounded by people in torment. He thinks to himself, this is horrible, what did I do to deserve this?

Then he's reminded - this is eternal justice. He thinks, "for what!?" He's reminded of God's Holy Law, the Ten Commandments. He's reminded of all the times he had lied, stolen, committed adultery in his heart with women on the internet, blasphemed God's Holy Name, coveted, hated, and mocked God who had graciously provided everything for him. He's reminded that God did not create Hell for man but to punish Satan and his angels. He's reminded of His wife's pleas for him to repent and trust in Jesus. He remembers how his wife told him that Jesus, the perfect and Holy Saviour, bled and died in Steve's place to pay the death penalty Steve owed for his sins. He remembers how God gave Steve His Word to read and he ignored it. He remembers how God gave him everything while he wanted nothing to do with Him. Steve sobs as he remembers how much God loved him to offer him a pardon through His Son. He can't believe he rejected it! Now God has no choice but to give him eternal justice. Steve is getting what he always wanted - an eternity without God. Steve screams out for help. He curses Satan, realizing the myth of him ruling this place was a lie from Satan himself. His fate will be the same as Steves! He curses the day he was born. His mind cannot comprehend what's happening and he comes to a horrific conclusion - this burning is never going to end. Oh what he'd give for that glass of water he just drank. But there's no water, no rest, no hope, no second chance, no relief, no friends, nothing but weeping and gnashing of teeth, forever. Its God's eternal justice for the sins of Steve's eternal soul.

Oh, what would Steve give for one more chance? Just one more chance to repent and accept God's free pardon in Christ.

Its too late.

Justice is served.

[FreakOil]

Hell is eternity alone in a room with POAlex.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('POAlex', 'H')ell ain't a bad place to be? Hell gets a bad rap?

Let's consider a day in Hell.

Steve is getting ready for bed. He's flipping through the channels as his wife goes upstairs to pray before bed. Steve mocks her as he usually does. He shuts off the TV and goes to get a glass of water. As he puts it back, he notices a note from his wife on the fridge. He reads it - "Steve, please listen to me about Jesus."

Immediately he crumples it up and finishes drinking his water. "This is the New Age, didn't you know that I'm a god?", he says.

On the way up the stairs Steve feels something unusual. He notices a sharp pain in his chest. Before he can say anything, he falls back down the stairs. "No, I'm only 32 years old", he thinks to himself. As his wife comes screaming, she finds Steve dead on the floor.

Steve awakens to realize he is falling, falling, falling. Things are getting darker and darker and darker. The smell is getting worse and worse and worse. The heat is getting hotter and hotter and hotter. Steve lands in a pit of fire and screams in agony. Horror enters his mind in realizing where he is. The blackness is so thick, he can barely see in front of himself. To his horror, he's surrounded by people in torment. He thinks to himself, this is horrible, what did I do to deserve this?

Then he's reminded - this is eternal justice. He thinks, "for what!?" He's reminded of God's Holy Law, the Ten Commandments. He's reminded of all the times he had lied, stolen, committed adultery in his heart with women on the internet, blasphemed God's Holy Name, coveted, hated, and mocked God who had graciously provided everything for him. He's reminded that God did not create Hell for man but to punish Satan and his angels. He's reminded of His wife's pleas for him to repent and trust in Jesus. He remembers how his wife told him that Jesus, the perfect and Holy Saviour, bled and died in Steve's place to pay the death penalty Steve owed for his sins. He remembers how God gave Steve His Word to read and he ignored it. He remembers how God gave him everything while he wanted nothing to do with Him. He remembers how much God loved him to offer Him a pardon through His Son. He can't believe he rejected it. Now God has no choice but to give him eternal justice. Steve is getting what he always wanted - an eternity without God. Steve screams out for help. He curses Satan, realizing the myth of him ruling this place was a lie from Satan himself. His fate is the same as Steves! He curses the day he was born. His mind cannot comprehend what's happening and he comes to a horrific conclusion - this burning is never going to end! Oh what he'd give for that glass of water he just drank. But there's no water, no rest, no hope, no second chance, no relief, no friends, nothing but weeping and gnashing of teeth, forever. Its God's eternal justice for the sins of Steve's eternal soul.

Oh, what would Steve give for one more chance? Just one more chance to accept God's free pardon in Christ.

Its too late.

Justice is served.

[wisconsin_cur]

Despite my best instincts I'll weigh in.

God is infinite yet hell is often defined where God is not.

If God is infinite there cannot be where God is not. If God is not there than there is a place where God is not, therefore (within the Christian paradigm) either

a) God is not infinite

b) Hell is a metaphor

It would appear that b is the choice more consistent with Christian faith and practice. It does not mean that one should not embrace Jesus or that the gospel is not true, only that the image of fire and Hell is a metaphor for destruction. Really what would be a better metaphor. How much wood do you burn until you have to empty out the ash bin?

Existentially, I guess, it might even be more terrifying than eternal torment.

If we wanted to have some fun we could even say that this is basis for agreement between atheists and Christians.

Atheist: "We cease to exist after we die."
Christian: "Yes you will."
Atheist: "No, we all cease to exist."
Christian: "Stop trying to oppress me with your evangelization dude. I'm agreeing with you about your fate. Leave me to mine. Alright?"



Annihilationism

[Cobra_Strike]

You know...if the bible is to be believed, hell will be a better place anyway. All the best band will be there, and none of the self righteous religious nuts.

[DrBang]

I hear the weather is warmer but the locals are unfriendly.

[katkinkate]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('POAlex', '.').... blah, blah...

Justice is served.

[seahorse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'W')hat if hell is the last unspoiled wilderness of the afterworld? Satan, being a conscientious caretaker, doesn't want a bunch of Christians showing up, cutting down all the forests, killing all the locals, building strip malls, etc.