[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'Y')ou just now read Ishmael?

[FreakOil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'A')lso, I'm excited (in a more positive way) by the prospect of seeing TPTB take it on the chin.

[Heineken]

Freakoil, I do not subscribe to the belief that money can insulate one from the changes that are coming.

During the years of the Black Death, rich and poor both died like flies.

In the future, money will just be so much paper. It's already on the way there.

[Ludi]

I'm so not close to being a neo-leaver! But thanks, Pops.


I am very much dependent on civilization, I have to admit. My steps in walking away have been and will remain, very tiny.

[RdSnt]

I'm glad you read that you are being at least a bit careful with your excitement. Indeed, it is exciting to be out in a storm, but only because you have the option of stepping back inside.
I don't find those who are bit buzzed about impending disaster to be at all mysterious or surprising. Without it sounding like a put-down, for the first world populations it is a sign of a lack of maturity. It's like teenagers romanticising about the Wild West, or fantasizing about being war heroes. All fun to think about it, and some even play some of it out.
But here's the rub, like the survivor tv shows, there is the option and indeed the plan to return to the comfort of the couch.

Walking off into the woods to make like a pioneer with your solar arrays and biodiesel generators sounds great. But then, when there is no comfort left to return to, then melting snow for drinking water and trying to dry wood to get it to burn, cause you couldn't be bothered getting your supply in on time, doesn't seem so quaint anymore.

For those very few who participate in these discussions, who actually, truly believe things are going to get worse, I would highly recommend you start practicing now. That means right there where you are, start conducting your lives like you've been talking.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', 'I') haven't read this entire thread, so some others may have posted ideas very similar to mine.

Why excitement about total collapse? A few things come to my mind. Boredom. Disenchantment. A yearning for a different, even more dangerous way of life. The thought of a bit of danger is exciting, but I think actually living it may force its appeal to wane somewhat. People who lived through the Depression likely would not want to live through another one. Some of the things we've considered on this board may seem a bit exciting, but once they became part of our daily grind we'd be saying "enough already" before long.

I admit to liking a bit of danger: being outside in a bad storm, riding a scary amusement park ride, watching a big fire or seeing an accident. But the moment any details of human suffering become known to me (young man thrown from the car died, a family lost everything), pain replaces excitement.

The thought of the changes we could be facing are only exciting in a kind of horrifying way to me now. I keep thinking that we will soon refer to these days as "the good old days".

[RdSnt]

There are two seeming contradictory groups of people who get excited, the naive and the experienced. Everyone else is just cannon fodder.


FreakOil, what happens when there are no jobs? What do you do then? There is an easy answer to that, you become a victim and a slave.
Those that will survive will first and foremost have skills that are of use and of value. Being good at World of Warcraft won't be one of those skills
What can you fix? What can you make?


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FreakOil', 'T')here's probably a few reasons why a person would get excited about TS Hitting TF. Here are a few that I can think of:

1) Being right: It would certainly justify all the preps you've done and prove to others that you were right all along.

2) Instinctual: I'm not sure that's the right word, but it's that same feeling of anticipation when you're watching a news broadcast about a category 5 hurricane headed for Florida.

3) Longing for a new life: We know this consumption driven lifestyle and economy are destroying the planet, so it's high time we started doing things differently.

I think the third reason is the most noble, so perhaps we claim that's the reason why we're getting excited. But if you look deep inside, it may be a combination of the first two reasons, which seems a bit crass. It may be a combination of all three, or perhaps everyone has a unique reason for feeling excited.

But a person is most likely to say that they long for a new life, and that's the reason why they're getting excited, even if it isn't true. I don't think anyone would openly admit that they want TS to hit TF just to prove their theory correct.

I also agree with WildRose. Things are going to get ugly. I think the slide is going to start with massive unemployment, and my job is very vulnerable. Luckily, I'm young, single, healthy and willing to move wherever someone needs me to do some heavy lifting, or whatever other work's available. That doesn't mean I'm looking forward to digging into my pockets and pulling out a handful of lint for supper.

[FreakOil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'F')reakoil, I do not subscribe to the belief that money can insulate one from the changes that are coming.

During the years of the Black Death, rich and poor both died like flies.

In the future, money will just be so much paper. It's already on the way there.

[FreakOil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', 'T')here are two seeming contradictory groups of people who get excited, the naive and the experienced. Everyone else is just cannon fodder.


FreakOil, what happens when there are no jobs? What do you do then? There is an easy answer to that, you become a victim and a slave.
Those that will survive will first and foremost have skills that are of use and of value. Being good at World of Warcraft won't be one of those skills
What can you fix? What can you make?


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FreakOil', 'T')here's probably a few reasons why a person would get excited about TS Hitting TF. Here are a few that I can think of:

1) Being right: It would certainly justify all the preps you've done and prove to others that you were right all along.

2) Instinctual: I'm not sure that's the right word, but it's that same feeling of anticipation when you're watching a news broadcast about a category 5 hurricane headed for Florida.

3) Longing for a new life: We know this consumption driven lifestyle and economy are destroying the planet, so it's high time we started doing things differently.

I think the third reason is the most noble, so perhaps we claim that's the reason why we're getting excited. But if you look deep inside, it may be a combination of the first two reasons, which seems a bit crass. It may be a combination of all three, or perhaps everyone has a unique reason for feeling excited.

But a person is most likely to say that they long for a new life, and that's the reason why they're getting excited, even if it isn't true. I don't think anyone would openly admit that they want TS to hit TF just to prove their theory correct.

I also agree with WildRose. Things are going to get ugly. I think the slide is going to start with massive unemployment, and my job is very vulnerable. Luckily, I'm young, single, healthy and willing to move wherever someone needs me to do some heavy lifting, or whatever other work's available. That doesn't mean I'm looking forward to digging into my pockets and pulling out a handful of lint for supper.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FreakOil', '
')I believe that land ownership is going to be a significant advantage in the coming years.

[FreakOil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FreakOil', '
')I believe that land ownership is going to be a significant advantage in the coming years.

[virgincrude]

Having just read Roger Williams Wescott's "Predicting The Past" I'm almost persuaded the idea of general catastrophe is some kind of universal human experience, inexplicably remembered long after the original cataclysm struck earth/mankind.

The theory is that mankind suffered a planetary upheaval caused by inter-planetary movement, causing- literally- the sky to fall; tremendous deluge, geological upheaval etc., those who survived (us- as descendants) are plagued by the emotional/psychological experience which can persuasively be used to explain practically all human emotional, psychological and social problems. We are perpetually expecting and fearing another cataclysm, be it personal loss (of property, loved ones, etc.,) or more generalised social upheaval, and more recently economic catastrophe.

If you think of humanity as the victim of inexplicable (early humans) terrestrial and cosmological upheaval, it becomes easier to understand our irrationality and violence. The 'thrill' of the coming collapse is of course related to this 'genetic' memory of a collapse which threatened our survival as a species, which in its original form, most likely shared a universal consciousness, rather than our recognised ego-driven individual consciousness which now constantly yearns to bond with another. I believe it is this remnant of our original universal consciousness which forms our basic morality: it is imperative for our survival that more, rather than less, of us survive any catastrophe. Imperative in the purely technical sense (a group of able bodied men AND some fertile females being better for our survival than just one or two of each sex) and in the psychological sense (no matter how tough an individualist may be, he/she can simply die of loneliness in the long term.)

Sensing a coming change can inspire hope for a new, and better life, for the end of suffering (emotional, physical or psychological) and that's how I'd interpret excitement at the prospect, and in a relief from drudgery sense. I believe hope is the single most important human quality (I almost wrote 'emotion', how is it classified?) and the hope for survival is what will drive us through all cataclysmic events beyond our control.

Our human experience has taught us that collapse in all forms is common, difficult, but that we survive it. As survivors of interplanetary cataclysm, we are permanently traumatized, and we know that survivors of a Peak-Oil (substitute AGW, or whatever tickles you) induced collapse shall also be traumatized, so it is preferable to prepare not just personally, but prepare those around you as far as they will allow, and hope a change can be effected GRADUALLY, because sudden and total collapse can mean THE END.

[RdSnt]

It's good to read you are thinking of these things.
I would suggest though that doing something radical is not a good strategy. Or, to put it a different way, the more radical your shift away from your chosen lifestyle the more lead time you need so that you can step back as you discover that change doesn't fit.
In these precarious times that could be a bad choice, since we can't predict outcomes.
Work from your current strengths and interests, then "organically" expand your skill set. For instance, you mention you are a journalist and writer. Do you know how to make paper? Ink? Can you set type? Do you know what that means in the context of no power? Do you know how to setup and run a small, local newspaper?
Even in a total collapse people need to be informed, and a local paper would be critical to keeping a community together.
These ideas work from you existing skill base and expand your knowledge, not necessarily to hold you in this path but to provide a sensible avenue of exploration. None of these ideas may appeal to you, but you may discover along the way that you are good at finding a rehabilitating hand operated printing presses, or you are really good at making ink, and these would be in demand.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FreakOil', '
')
I'm definitley considering a career change to something more useful, but I don't want to mention it here for fear of provoking everyone's derision. I'm also considering some more radical changes to my lifestyle.

Peak Oil really forces you to take a long hard look at yourself and what you do and ask the question, "Am I useful?" "Will anyone want me around?"

I'm still young and strong, and I'm willing to go someplace where I'm needed, not just find my own personal paradise. Those days are numbered.

[BigTex]

We slow down to look at an accident, even though we are not happy that people may be injured. We just like seeing the cars all bent up. I don't know why that is interesting, but it is.

A life with no struggle and no suffering is dull and pointless for many people. The idea of being placed in life and death situations and forced to rely on your wits is refreshing for some who spend their days dealing with incredibly petty office or other work crap (which is the product of everyone else being bored as well).

I feel very bad for anyone who is injured or killed, and yet I find upheavel, chaos, shocks to the system and general disturbances to the herd to be very invigorating. It's like the danger taps into something primal that day to day life just doesn't reach. It's probably this impulse that makes many young people go into the military.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', ' ')It will just be might makes right.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FreakOil', '
')I'm definitley considering a career change to something more useful, but I don't want to mention it here for fear of provoking everyone's derision. .

[JPL]

Hmmm.

I think about 10% of the people on this forum are actually going to take the information they've learned & do something with it.

The rest will eventually get bored & wander off. The 'modern way of life', as far as I can figure from some back-of-the-envelope calculations, has about 50 years to go before it collapses totally. Nuclear, wind, conservation will keep things going far longer than a lot of people here think. That's not even my opinion, that's just the way it's going to be.

But when the final collapse happens - it will be total. Every resource stretched out, & gone. Every last bit of uranium dragged out of the ground, every last high-score on the latest computer game, zero.

So what are you (or your children) going to do then? That's the real question. Even my guess of 50 years is too short a time to prepare for what our real future is going to hold - do YOU feel ready-enough yet (grin)?

JP

[FreakOil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FreakOil', '
')I'm definitley considering a career change to something more useful, but I don't want to mention it here for fear of provoking everyone's derision. .

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', 'H')mmm.

I think about 10% of the people on this forum are actually going to take the information they've learned & do something with it.

The rest will eventually get bored & wander off. The 'modern way of life', as far as I can figure from some back-of-the-envelope calculations, has about 50 years to go before it collapses totally. Nuclear, wind, conservation will keep things going far longer than a lot of people here think. That's not even my opinion, that's just the way it's going to be.

But when the final collapse happens - it will be total. Every resource stretched out, & gone. Every last bit of uranium dragged out of the ground, every last high-score on the latest computer game, zero.

So what are you (or your children) going to do then? That's the real question. Even my guess of 50 years is too short a time to prepare for what our real future is going to hold - do YOU feel ready-enough yet (grin)?

JP

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'W')e slow down to look at an accident, even though we are not happy that people may be injured. We just like seeing the cars all bent up. I don't know why that is interesting, but it is.

A life with no struggle and no suffering is dull and pointless for many people. The idea of being placed in life and death situations and forced to rely on your wits is refreshing for some who spend their days dealing with incredibly petty office or other work crap (which is the product of everyone else being bored as well).

I feel very bad for anyone who is injured or killed, and yet I find upheavel, chaos, shocks to the system and general disturbances to the herd to be very invigorating. It's like the danger taps into something primal that day to day life just doesn't reach. It's probably this impulse that makes many young people go into the military.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'W')e slow down to look at an accident, even though we are not happy that people may be injured. We just like seeing the cars all bent up. I don't know why that is interesting, but it is.

A life with no struggle and no suffering is dull and pointless for many people. The idea of being placed in life and death situations and forced to rely on your wits is refreshing for some who spend their days dealing with incredibly petty office or other work crap (which is the product of everyone else being bored as well).

I feel very bad for anyone who is injured or killed, and yet I find upheavel, chaos, shocks to the system and general disturbances to the herd to be very invigorating. It's like the danger taps into something primal that day to day life just doesn't reach. It's probably this impulse that makes many young people go into the military.