[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', ' ')My fear is that the decline will cause many more of us to re-immerse ourselves in cults of control, effectively relinquishing our "inner resources" to the priestly classes once again.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')After reading up on the 2012 Mayan prophecy I think there's there is something to it. Coast to Coast is likely more reliable than most of mainstream media. They've been calling the economic downturn for the last year or so, and have scooped the mainstream in numerous other areas.

[BlisteredWhippet]

A more winding, twisting path to a psychological dead-end human culture never invented. A guy with feathers in his hair is just another bird-brained idiot, not the high-flying avatar of his imagination. Shamanism requires the patronage of the credulous, and could fairly be described wholly in those terms. But don't take my word for it- attend the Seminar, only $159 for the weekend.... and be sure to take home some fake/authentic trinkets...

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')After reading up on the 2012 Mayan prophecy I think there's there is something to it. Coast to Coast is likely more reliable than most of mainstream media. They've been calling the economic downturn for the last year or so, and have scooped the mainstream in numerous other areas.

[DrBang]

There is a lot of disinformation and character assassination around when these topics are mentioned.

What I find very telling is amount of effort put into disinformation dirty pool campaigns by government authorities. If it genuinely was a non issue, they would leave it alone.

TB, good thread.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'M')ost people blend the 2012 stuff to astrology, biblical, and Chariots of the Gods stuff.

[Iaato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'T')he pre-rational stage occurs during childhood, and is very much ego-centric. Children of course see themselves pretty much as the center of the universe; their early thinking is based largely on a belief that they can manipulate the world simply through the force of their will. This is the level of so-called magical thinking. Watch some Saturday morning cartoons and you will see that they are rife with this level of functioning - super heroes/villains that point and zap people, make things move with their minds, are basically immune to harm, etc. So-called 'power magic' is also drawn from this level, voodoo being one prominent example.

Eventually a child comes to realize that such power magic doesn't work, and so magical thinking gives way to mythic thinking, wherein now it's not me who controls the world, it's God(s)/Goddess(es) (initially Mom & Dad) who control it, and if I just find the right way to pray to/placate the Deity then it will move the world for me. This level is also referred to as conventional or ethno-centric, because it is from our 'tribal group' that we learn the one right way to live, the social conventions, that earn the Deity's favor. This is also, incidentally, the general level of development that a large percentage of humanity is currently at, and it is still pre-rational.

A smaller percentage have matured to the rational level, where there is recognition that we are directly responsible for our actions and their consequences, where we begin to question the dictates of our 'tribal' conventionality and develop our own moral compass, thus developing a post-conventional, world-centric perspective. This is the level of the "All men are created equal" of the U.S. Constitution.

Fewer still (estimates are around 1 - 3% of the population if I recall) have grown even further in psychological terms to a level where they not only identify themselves as individuals amongst equal individuals, but they recognize, as an ongoing, living experience, the Oneness of humanity; their's is a truly trans-personal identity, and there are understandings and modes of functioning that are unique to this level of Awareness.

[DrBang]

Shamanism is something scary but uplifting. A friend described an awakening to me. He said he had never felt so alive. He saw things very differently from that point onwards.

[DrBang]

my friend did not go to a course but had a near death experience.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('culicomorpha', 'R')egarding the new age folks, one of the more dangerous themes I see is the extreme focus on the individual.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Iaato', 'T')hanks for the introduction to Wilber. I'll have to check out that documentary. Wilber's framework appears to parallel Kohlberg's moral framework below.

"Level 1 (Pre-Conventional)
1. Obedience and punishment orientation
(How can I avoid punishment?)
2. Self-interest orientation
(What's in it for me?)
Level 2 (Conventional)
3. Interpersonal accord and conformity
(The good boy/good girl attitude)
4. Authority and social-order maintaining orientation
(Law and order morality)
Level 3 (Post-Conventional)
5. Social contract orientation
6. Universal ethical principles
(Principled conscience)"

Wiki on Kohlberg

As far as I can tell, the persona of our indulged, navel-gazing society has descended to Kohlberg's level 1 & 2.Those levels are called, "How can I avoid getting caught?" & "What's in it for me?" Which corresponds on Wilber's consciousness scale to the levels of magical thinking (the blue pill) and mythical thinking (Daddy Bush will fix it for us). Very primitive and childlike. Use it or lose it.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'N')ew Age is the spiritual equivalent of multicultural capitalism. It's all about scavenging other cultures to find hints of spiritually truth and expropriate them divorced from the cultural context.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', 'A') more winding, twisting path to a psychological dead-end human culture never invented. A guy with feathers in his hair is just another bird-brained idiot, not the high-flying avatar of his imagination. Shamanism requires the patronage of the credulous, and could fairly be described wholly in those terms. But don't take my word for it- attend the Seminar, only $159 for the weekend.... and be sure to take home some fake/authentic trinkets...

[threadbear]

SmallPoxGirl, Twilliam, Dr.Bang, Iatto, It's actually almost a physical relief to read the thoughts of people who share the same ideas. You've massaged the knots out of my neck. Thanks

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('culicomorpha', 'G')reat topic TB...
(...)
And this is not limited to new agers either. Even Buddhism, which I find has many excellent points and is a generally good philosophy, can easily lead people to an isolated, passive existence that focuses on personal change, but almost entirely ignores the fact that there are really significant problems in this world that absolutely require changes not limited to individuals.
(...)

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '(')...)

Rudolph Steiner, the creator of the Waldorf schools and an amazing early 20th century mystic , warned North Americans against some of the practices of the East, understanding that they are, to a point, specific to Eastern culture. They don't translate seamlessly.
(...)

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '(')...)

Rudolph Steiner, the creator of the Waldorf schools and an amazing early 20th century mystic , warned North Americans against some of the practices of the East, understanding that they are, to a point, specific to Eastern culture. They don't translate seamlessly.
(...)

[Kingcoal]

When I was a young man, in my mid teens, I was into New Age stuff. It was all about meditation and getting to know inner peace through meditation. I used to meditate and was bothered by the materialistic world – much to the dismay of my parents. I’ve lived a fairly normal life, but one thing I’ve never had a problem with is inner peace. I’ve always had it; it’s the outside world that’s always frustrated me. I honestly really don’t think that having inner peace is the answer to anything other than your own comfort. Inner peace is not a panacea for humanity’s problems. Crazy people are responsible for a lot of the contributions in human existence, bliss is overrated. New Age people tend to be stuck in Wilber’s mystic phase IMO. Mysticism is just another form of religious thinking without the dogma and convention. It is still in Wilber’s Mystic Phase, it’s just a little higher on the scale because it reflects the individual questioning the traditions of their tribe.

Wilber is correct in that less than 10% of the population “gets it.” The vast majority of the human race is self-obsessed in comparison. They are completely lost within their own neurosis and thus their ability to contribute is severely compromised. The vast majority of the human race can’t see past their own children, let alone grandchildren. The people in Wilber’s top 2% are those who look at all of humanity as their relatives. They see themselves as servants to the cause of preserving the species. These people are the great leaders and mentors of humanity through their humble teaching and example. They are everywhere, on every social ladder rung. They might be an inspiring school teacher, a researcher in a lab or just a fellow coworker who mediates problems and makes things run smoother. They all have one thing in common; they “selflessly” give of themselves. To them, they are very selfish; they want humans to survive and progress and since they consider all of humanity as their relations, they are just watching out for their hommies.

There is one more characteristic of these 2 percenter’s; they don’t try to save the whole world, they are realists, they know that trying to bite off more then they can chew is a waste of precious time and effort. They know that trying to save the world is just an ego driven drive for attention. They know that invention can’t be scheduled. They concentrate instead on making a positive contribution to the people around them, the people they know.

While we are talking about the oneness of humanity, let’s talk about the number one problem that humanity has; long term survival. Unless humanity eventually builds movable, self contained, controllable environments, we are ultimately doomed to suffer some irrevocable catastrophe which will cease our existence. Our grim reaper may be man made, but will probably be natural; a comet or meteor hit, a nearby supernova, etc. It will happen; it’s just a matter of when. It may be tomorrow or thousands or even millions of years from now, we don’t know. Humanity must construct these “arks” to protect a large representative population from this. Preferably, these environments should be in space.

Think that’s nuts? It’s only logical, mass extinctions happen often on the earth. Humans are the most adaptable creatures on earth, that’s why we’ve been so successful. We make up for our lack of big teeth and brute strength by taking control of our environment. It’s all about controlling our environment, from clothing yourself, to cultivating food, to heating your home in the winter. Survival is based on knowledge about the environment and the ability to control it. Ultimately, the earth is too dangerous of a place to stay because it is a “sitting target” for other orbiting bodies and radiation flashes from space. Let me reiterate, gravity is an enemy and so is radiation and the earth has little protection from either. Scientists have noted that the arraignment of the solar system, with huge gas giants where they are, provides an unusual amount of protection from this and is probably responsible for the evolution of life on this planet. Life probably suffers an early death 99.9% of the time when it starts in other places in the Cosmos. The Cosmos is a very dangerous place for frail creatures like us.

Science and technology is the ONLY thing that can save us and is responsible for our current success. Humanity MUST survive, at all costs. As far as we know, we are the only intelligent life forms in the entire Cosmos, while that is unlikely, we have no proof otherwise. When you think in terms of humanity as a whole, any thinking that involves voluntarily dying off is suicidal and thus immature. Anything that helps us to the goal of securing our survival is a good thing. If prayer, meditation or some other form of reflective mental activity helps someone invent something to help us with our goal, then that is a good thing to do for those who it helps. These are not new concepts; they’ve been discussed at length by philosophers, scientists and even politicians and business leaders in the past.

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'G')ood thread TB.

I don't know if you're familiar with Ken Wilber and his work, and it would be pretty much impossible for me to summarize it here, but I will say that I think it relates a lot to these ideas.

Ken's 'life work' so to speak, has been to formulate a comprehensive 'map' of the human experience that attempts to synthesize information from as many different disciplines and world views as possible, with a great deal of emphasis on the evolution of consciousness. His stuff is definitely not light reading, but if one can manage to wrap their mind around it, his work gives one a much broader understanding about humanity than any other author I've come across.

Anyway, regarding the issue of New Age, and particularly the point culicomorpha makes regarding the extreme emphasis on the individual. This isn't a phenomenon exclusive to New Agers; it's actually endemic in our culture as a whole, particularly among the Boomers (the so-called "Me Generation" recall), and it's not difficult to understand why if one considers that such hyper-individualism is precisely what the lords of capitalism require, and precisely what they've deliberately instilled over the last half-century or so through media and schooling. There's a great documentary titled The Century of the Self that explores this particular topic in depth; I highly recommend it (it's in four parts, and for some odd reason part two never seems to show up in the "Related Videos" frame on Google video, but if you search the title plus the string "2 of 4" you'll find it).

Returning to Ken Wilber: there is a phenomenon related to the growth of consciousness that he refers to as the "Pre-Trans Fallacy"; consider that as humans mature from birth to adolescence to adulthood, they pass through a series of developmental stages, not only on a physical level but on psychological and emotional levels as well. Broadly speaking, the psychological stages can be divided into three general levels, labeled pre-rational, rational and post- (or trans-) rational. The third is also sometimes referred to as trans-personal (as in Trans-personal Psychology). An alternate labeling is pre-conventional, conventional and post-conventional.

The pre-rational stage occurs during childhood, and is very much ego-centric. Children of course see themselves pretty much as the center of the universe; their early thinking is based largely on a belief that they can manipulate the world simply through the force of their will. This is the level of so-called magical thinking. Watch some Saturday morning cartoons and you will see that they are rife with this level of functioning - super heroes/villains that point and zap people, make things move with their minds, are basically immune to harm, etc. So-called 'power magic' is also drawn from this level, voodoo being one prominent example.

Eventually a child comes to realize that such power magic doesn't work, and so magical thinking gives way to mythic thinking, wherein now it's not me who controls the world, it's God(s)/Goddess(es) (initially Mom & Dad) who control it, and if I just find the right way to pray to/placate the Deity then it will move the world for me. This level is also referred to as conventional or ethno-centric, because it is from our 'tribal group' that we learn the one right way to live, the social conventions, that earn the Deity's favor. This is also, incidentally, the general level of development that a large percentage of humanity is currently at, and it is still pre-rational.

A smaller percentage have matured to the rational level, where there is recognition that we are directly responsible for our actions and their consequences, where we begin to question the dictates of our 'tribal' conventionality and develop our own moral compass, thus developing a post-conventional, world-centric perspective. This is the level of the "All men are created equal" of the U.S. Constitution.

Fewer still (estimates are around 1 - 3% of the population if I recall) have grown even further in psychological terms to a level where they not only identify themselves as individuals amongst equal individuals, but they recognize, as an ongoing, living experience, the Oneness of humanity; their's is a truly trans-personal identity, and there are understandings and modes of functioning that are unique to this level of Awareness.

This is where we get to the Pre-Trans Fallacy, and particularly as it manifests among the New Age community. Both pre-rational and trans-rational levels are non-rational, and as a result they are frequently confused. "I make/control the world" (ala 'The Secret') is a pre-rational, ego-centric perspective that has been mis-taken to be a logical extension of the trans-rational Awareness that "I and the world are One". Variations on this fundamental misunderstanding are rampant, and it is this misunderstanding that is the root of the 'abdication of responsibility' that culicomorpha mentions. A genuinely trans-rational, world-centric Awareness of Oneness recognizes that because I am One with All, it is unthinkable that I would not care equally for the Totality of Myself.

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '(')...)

Rudolph Steiner, the creator of the Waldorf schools and an amazing early 20th century mystic , warned North Americans against some of the practices of the East, understanding that they are, to a point, specific to Eastern culture. They don't translate seamlessly.
(...)