PeakOil is You
THE 'Examples of Disinformation' Thread (merged)
Re: Scary. Mexican Government Already in Disinformation Mod
by Cid_Yama » Wed 02 Jan 2008, 04:30:51
The North American Alliance will not happen. It has recieved too much publicity, and unlike the US, the people in Canada are not morons and still have effective unions. Canadians realize that they would be on the short end of the stick in such an arrangement and will not let it happen. Also, Mexico has been engaged in a civil(class) war since last election. Unless TPTB want it to spread to the rest of North America, trying to push this through is not in their best interests.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry
The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
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Cid_Yama - Light Sweet Crude
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Re: Scary. Mexican Government Already in Disinformation Mod
by vfr » Wed 02 Jan 2008, 21:24:02
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SILENTTODD', 'T')onight I had on this New Year's Eve a very enlightening, and to my judgment scary conversation with someone I consider one of the most intelligent persons I know.
My friend Maria grew up in a fairly upper class family in Mexico City. One of her uncles was once Mayor of Mexico City. She came to this country almost 30 years ago escaping a bad marriage, at that time with a young daughter, and has since made success of her life in business and become an American citizen. She is extremely fluent in both Spanish and English (understands the jokes in both).
What she knows about Peak Oil comes from conversations with me, (and this subject is far and few between in my relations with her). This evening for one reason or another, the subject of the crashing of the Cantarell Oil Field came up. She told me she had recently heard on Mexican Radio (we are in the L.A. market); that Mexico was producing more oil than it ever had, and would continue to do so in the future. No argument from me could shake her from what ever she had heard on this broadcast. She accepted it as Gospel (even though she has a very low opinion of the Mexican Government).
What really bothered me more than her acceptance of an outright untruth was where did the Mexican radio station get its information? They wouldn’t know, or have an opinion on this subject any more than my friend Maria. This had to be coming out of the Government of Mexico itself! They, and everybody who reads this blog knows what the truth is, but they are choosing not to just remain silent, but broadcast a Lie!
Time to get out of Iraq Now! And put what's left of the Army on our own boarder (USA), as a buffer against the overwhelming multitude of refugees that will soon be besieging America from the south!
My friend Maria grew up in a fairly upper class family in Mexico City. One of her uncles was once Mayor of Mexico City. She came to this country almost 30 years ago escaping a bad marriage, at that time with a young daughter, and has since made success of her life in business and become an American citizen. She is extremely fluent in both Spanish and English (understands the jokes in both).
What she knows about Peak Oil comes from conversations with me, (and this subject is far and few between in my relations with her). This evening for one reason or another, the subject of the crashing of the Cantarell Oil Field came up. She told me she had recently heard on Mexican Radio (we are in the L.A. market); that Mexico was producing more oil than it ever had, and would continue to do so in the future. No argument from me could shake her from what ever she had heard on this broadcast. She accepted it as Gospel (even though she has a very low opinion of the Mexican Government).
What really bothered me more than her acceptance of an outright untruth was where did the Mexican radio station get its information? They wouldn’t know, or have an opinion on this subject any more than my friend Maria. This had to be coming out of the Government of Mexico itself! They, and everybody who reads this blog knows what the truth is, but they are choosing not to just remain silent, but broadcast a Lie!
Time to get out of Iraq Now! And put what's left of the Army on our own boarder (USA), as a buffer against the overwhelming multitude of refugees that will soon be besieging America from the south!
Well, don't worry about Iraq. We will be one big family soon in NA.
link
A lot of the US used to be theirs (Mexico) until we took it over, so they want it back. I'm from L.A. It was a well know fact 20 years ago that the Mexicans planned on taking back CA one way or another. As they took over CA, they decided to branch out to all parts of the US.
After all, everyone cannot afford those crazy CA real estate prices. An old flat rook, termite eaten cracker box in poor are of town with no land (one bedroom and about 600 sq. feet) goes for about $500,000. Want a 1000 SF shack with a small backyard in W.L.A....then cough up over a million $$. But this is how it has always been in the US. We took it over from the Indians and the Mexicans are taking it over from us.
Ina addition NAFTA came about as a way for the US to get its hands on the energy output of Canada and Mexico. And part of that agreement (unwritten) was to relax the law somewhat on the illegals coming from Mexico.
In short...if you want our crude you take some of our illegals. May I suggest you become a Taoist, then you will realize 'fleas come with the dog' my friend. And I agree that war stinks. But we are in a new era of human life. We are entering the post crude phase of our existence and we will see much more turmoil in the near future than just the few killings that have come our of our current war effort. You see, we will be at war over crude until the last buckets have been sucked from the earth...so get used to it.
As we would leave the Middle East...China or Russia would step in.
See: link
China has triple our pop and a fraction of our oil reserves within its borders. So either we play bodyguard to the Middle East or China or Russia will. You like typing on the 'puter don't you? Well, without the crude to make the diesel to power the train that brings the coal to the power plant you would not be typing on the 'puter.
But that is not all. We are entering an era of peak natural gas, peak water, peak food, peak uranium. So many areas of new conflict are in our future. Carving up a barrel of crude oil, we can see that barrel supplies many of our necessities of life. Out of each barrel of crude we make the following products:
42% of each barrel of crude is used for Gasoline
21% Fuel oil - Diesel
8% Jet Fuel and Kerosene
8% Petrochemicals
Such as: Solvents Bearing Grease Vaseline Ink Floor Wax Ball-point Pens Football Cleats Upholstery Sweaters Boats Insecticides Bicycle Tires Sports Car Bodies Nail Polish Fishing lures Dresses Tires Golf Bags Perfumes Cassettes Dishwasher Tool Boxes Shoe Polish Motorcycle Helmet Caulking Petroleum Jelly Transparent Tape CD Player Faucet Washers Antiseptics Clothesline Curtains Food Preservatives Basketballs Soap Vitamin Capsules Antihistamines Purses Shoes Dashboards Cortisone Deodorant Footballs Putty Dyes Panty Hose Refrigerant Percolators Life Jackets Rubbing Alcohol Linings Skis TV Cabinets Shag Rugs Electrician's Tape Tool Racks Car Battery Cases Epoxy Paint Mops Slacks Insect Repellent Oil Filters Umbrellas Yarn Fertilizers Hair Coloring Roofing Toilet Seats Fishing Rods Lipstick Denture Adhesive Linoleum Ice Cube Trays Synthetic Rubber Speakers Plastic Wood Electric Blankets Glycerin Tennis Rackets Rubber Cement Fishing Boots Dice Nylon Rope Candles Trash Bags House Paint Water Pipes Hand Lotion Roller Skates Surf Boards Shampoo Wheels Paint Rollers Shower Curtains Guitar Strings Luggage Aspirin Safety Glasses Antifreeze Football Helmets Awnings Eyeglasses Clothes Toothbrushes Ice Chests Footballs Combs CD's Paint Brushes Detergents Vaporizers Balloons Sun Glasses Tents Heart Valves Crayons Parachutes Telephones Enamel Pillows Dishes Cameras Anesthetics Artificial Turf Artificial limbs Bandages Dentures Model Cars Folding Doors Hair Curlers Cold cream Movie film Soft Contact lenses Drinking Cups Fan Belts Car Enamel Shaving Cream Ammonia Refrigerators Golf Balls Toothpaste
6% Propane
4% Heating Oil
3% Asphalt and Road oil
2% Petroleum coke
1% Lubricants
All these products will be history someday. Have you ever thought about how much of our life is dependent on natural gas for cooking, heating and hot water? How many of our homes are set up for efficient heating with natural methods such as wood, pellet, passive solar? We will run out of natural gas, just as we deplete our crude supplies in the near future.
Natural Gas Natural gas is a raw material in many of our products we depend on. Almost all the helium we produce comes from natural gas. Propane, synthetic fertilizers, ammonia? They are totally dependent on natural gas.
Our population boom was fueled by synthetic fertilizers made from natural; gas. Once the gas dries up so does the fertilizer and a shortage of fertilizer equals a shortage of food. Natural gas is also used as an energy source to produce steel, glass, paper, clothing, brick, electricity link 1 and link 2 and link 3
You still have some valuable time left to prepare for what awaits you down the road. We are in the 'Indian Summer' of a carbon based world. Don't wait until the winter sets in to start work on your preparedness efforts. We can't depend on the President to come clean with the public. All his energies are spent just trying to keep the oil flowing. He can't admit that the oil will stop in the not so distant future, no matter what we do. It is a problem beyond his as well as all of our control.
As they say in 12 Step programs - admitting you have a problem is step 1. And our country cannot admit it, after all, admitting this problem would raise hell with our retirement funds. And until we can admit it, we cannot begin on our long road to a 'semblance' of recovery. And in the big picture, we can't fix the problem, we can only postpone the inevitable. But buying a little more time would make things much more livable in the not so distant future than the current path we are headed in.
The world is in a death spiral and politicians as well as industry are pretending this problem does not exist. We can only blame ourselves, for it is just how we have built our world over the years....too many people, living outside of natures intended balance and not an infinite supply of energy to fuel all our demands. It would be one thing if we all reverted back to rural living, burning trees for fuel and housing and living within our comfortable means allotted to us by nature, as our ancestors did back in the day. But ten billion people can't burn the trees! (Ten billion people is a conservative estimate of world population in the not so distant future. We are at 7 people billion now.)
The World Coal Institute estimates world energy reserves as follows:
"At current production levels coal will be available for at least the next 155 years compared to 41 years for oil and 65 years for gas."
http://www.worldcoal.org/pages/content/ ... ?PageID=21
Even though this was written a few years ago and it is based on 'current production and consumption' it gives the same haunting message to the generations to come. We may not exactly see the end of our free flowing energy as we know it - but some of our descendants will in the not so distant future. This is the legacy they will inherit from us. But before the energy dries up completely massive changes in our world will have taken place.
Our population has grown to levels where it has passed the point of no return for supporting a sustainable human population as we know it today when it comes to their energy demands. And leading the pack of over consumers is the USA. link
Consumption is ingrained in us and we know no other way. And even if we wished to amend our ways, how could all our retirement funds take the hit? America is built on borrowed money, spending and consumerism. And what does all that consumerism lead to? It leads to the mess we are in now and the bigger mess the world will be in once India and China pick up momentum to copycat the envious lifestyle that they have held in high esteem as the 'American Dream'
You see, the problem is not with the earth having enough land for all its people - the problem is with earth providing ad infinitum for all the needs the people crave. The more people born, the more heat is produced from their life and all their cravings, As such, the warmer and more polluted the earth gets and the more energy they all use and the earths resources are depleted.
Fueling the problem of consumption is the games the Federal and World banks play with interest rates. They manage the economies in ways to fuel consumption and mask the real trend. Witness the recent cries for Federal bankers to lower interest rates...so the stock market can go up...fueled by spending of the consumer.
It is drug habit that Greenspan got us hooked on and we just can't get away from. Our economy is not based on sustainable health - it is based low interest credit to encourage compulsive spending, debt and living a life of constant consumption with a 'disposable mentality' when it comes to durable goods.
All this consumption to artificially fuel our economy to make our retirement funds only go up contributes to more and more global warming and the depletion of our natural resources. Then the governments juggle the numbers to make the inflation figures seem artificially low, so everyone's retirement portfolio will make them happy so they will continue to buy and consume more...and on it goes....IT IS ALL WE KNOW
You see, no other animal destroys its environment except mankind. We are the only ones that do not accept and live within our comfortable means. We not only debt with our finances we debt with our environment. What we are borrowing in terms of petroleum, coal and natural gas takes millions of years for nature to make. Yet we are using it all up in just a few hundred years...we can never pay it back.
I think our countries future will be....'America...a Democratic, Communist Nation Under God.' And maybe I am using the wrong word with communism? Maybe it should be Nationalism? Socialism? I don't know since I have little interest in politics. As far for what I means, it could be compared somewhat to Plato's Republic. Where the republic came first and people came second. But with the US, the injection of Democratic values as well as a spiritual foundation that supports our country would 'hopefully' separate us from the atheist based communists that have been run as dictatorships.
Without energy our country is open for takeover ... no jets...no tanks...no transport on the ground or in the air. Luckily we will still have nuclear powered submarines and aircraft carriers as long as the uranium holds out. But the jets on the flattop all use jet fuel. All the supplies for those subs and carriers petroleum dependent. So long before the crude dries up the government must 'secure a supply' of crude for it own needs.
Other countries such as Russia that have a good supply of crude may not be so kind to keep on selling it to us and we need a 'local and continual' source somewhat within our borders. You see, jet fuel as well as gasoline deteriorates and cannot be stored indefinitely. So we must always be producing some of it to replace the stale stuff to supply the military. But, that's why we elect politicians to deal with these troubles
As our world changes and our drug supply dries up, things will only get worse. And the bigger the city - the bigger the hellhole it will become. And this time RIGHT NOW is the defining moment as to whether most of our population will die off or not in the crisis that awaits us in the not so distant future. When it comes to the future, I see people living in miniature houses (the lucky ones that survive that is, after all most of the population died off long ago from starvation, freezing to death or from the riots) with roofs shingled completely with solar material.
They drive up to their house on an electric scooter that is recharged from their solar roof. If they are higher up the totem pole they may have a solar golf cart. But in either case, luck must still be on their side for without the sun shinning to charge it, their transportation sits idle. (Not much lead left to build big batteries...China gobbled it all up, so we have to make due with very small storage cells.)
They work for the government and in exchange the government feeds and clothes them from their warehouses. You see, we have become a sort of 'Communist Democracy' for without that bold leap and a desire 'to put our country first' Russia or China would have stepped in to acquire some new real estate.
The warehouses are fed from government owned coal fired steam locomotives. Diesel dried up long ago, so it was either wood or coal to fuel the trains. It did not take our government long to realize this. the electric plants only had to shut down sporadically for 8 months so until they could build the first of a large fleet of steam locomotives.
This was a 'slight' government oversight. They never figured that the coal fired power plants were fed with 'diesel powered' locomotives. They kept concentrated on the prediction that we had a hundred of years of coal left, but were oblivious as to how that coal is delivered to the power plant. But all these changes have some bright spots in them. As the coal producers were able to hire many more workers to manually mine coal, as the diesel powered mining equipment sit idle from lack of diesel fuel.
Now some of the states or bigger cities had the foresight to build one or two electric rail trolleys for public transport. Your only problem is getting to the main road to catch the trolley and then it is a straight ride to the government warehouse.
What happened to Private industry & Money? Money is nothing more than stored energy. But since the crude dried up, the 'real energy' behind the money has vanished...and so did private industry. What about the coal mines...all government owned. If you want to eat you work..it is that simple. So, what is money good for nowadays...to wipe your ass? Not really, the government supplied toilet paper works better than that. Martha Stewart syndrome died out long ago, now people are happy to eat rice and beans and get a clean glass of water to drink.
After all, the government can't afford to fool around decorating everyone's house, they can hardly produce enough food to keep a fraction of the population alive. Yes, tractors, reapers and farming is very crude intensive...but no one bothered to think about that as they continued to squander the worlds petroleum resources.
On a positive note, since most of the population died off from 'natural causes', the government does not have to worry about passing 'population control' any longer. They tried to get that universally opposed program passed for many years, but the public just would not go for it...too UN-American...goes against our religious upbringings...too controversial and all of the rest. We can still hear the cries now...Communist!...Atheist!...Baby Killer....Hitler....Impeach the President!!!!
Such objections are only subjective and prejudicial states of mind. As such, all problems related to 'controversial subjects' such as this are problems created in the mind...the mind of ego based, prejudicial man. If you find yourself being distracted with such thoughts as 'too controversial' just ask yourself if the proposed controversy is true, false or I don't know?
This introspective method may help you become truth based and not ego based. You will have made a 'choice divorced of need'...you wont 'need your ego' to support the truth...the truth will be able to stand on its own.
But nature helped us humans out with that hard decision - for nature does not discriminate nor find the truth too controversial or provocative or opinionated to be true. And in the end, nature settled the dispute of population control with even handed justice of 75% of our population dying off, ever reminding us all that nature does not bow to man...it is always man that bows to nature.
But, people hold no grudges against nature and are more in harmony with nature and enjoy a simpler life nowadays. People pick pine needles from trees to make their tea, since there is no jet fuel to import any Darjeeling tea or coffee. Once in a while people are able to kill a bird, a rat or cat to supplement their diet - so we still can find a place of gratitude in our life for such gifts.
Of course one problem still haunts the world? The last remaining buckets of crude will soon be gone and they have still not found out how to make the tires for the solar powered golf carts and scooters without that critical ingredient of crude oil? Add it all together and you have 'America...a Democratic, Communist Nation Under God.' as the 'best fit ' equation. And for dessert add 'politics as usual' and we can see nothing substantive will be done in the US to fix our energy woes until it is too late. (Really it can't be fixed, we can only slowed down the inevitable at this point.) See: link
BTW, do I like communism? No, I like things EXACTLY as they are. But what I like doesn't matter...neither does what you like matter. That's the point, for the US to survive, we must put 'what matters to our country' on the front burner. And as our country survives so do we survive. Alan Watts used to say, it doesn't matter what you think, it doesn't matter what you like, it doesn't matter what you hope for...all that really matters is what IS.
Sure we keep our treasured paper money, our guns, and what have you. The atheists can still be atheists and the Christians, Muslims and Jews can still worship as they like...that is why we would be a free democracy...of sorts. But the difference is, instead of the ego based decisions that politicians and the titans of business get sucked into, they will put the long term viability as top priority over personal profit. We must all pull together and stop pulling in counterproductive directions.
The gov needs to cut the fat and stop all this foolish sickness that they are addicted to in Washington. Hire yourself some truth based philosophers and futurists as Socrates suggested in the Republic as an oversight committee to keep you guys on track.
One important thing would be to add an addendum to the constitution or bill of rights or whatever other documents that outlines what we are 'now' all about...something that is clear advice that we can all look to and not the 1000 page BS that politician use to hide their sickness. And yes,...hiding behavior is a signpost of die-ease. And put it right upfront in the addendum as to why things changed...we were energy whores and had no other choice.
But realize this, throughout history many great nations that once were are not around any longer. Hopefully the US will understand this and start accepting the truth that something has to give and it can't be business as usual...it doesn't matter what you like...it doesn't matter what you hope for...all that really matters is what is.
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
Futurist
Urban Homesteader
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vfr - Peat
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Re: Scary. Mexican Government Already in Disinformation Mod
by Denny » Wed 02 Jan 2008, 21:46:33
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'T')he North American Alliance will not happen. It has recieved too much publicity, and unlike the US, the people in Canada are not morons and still have effective unions. Canadians realize that they would be on the short end of the stick in such an arrangement and will not let it happen.
Are Canadians somehow smarter today than they were 18 years ago, when Mulroney was sweet talking Ronald Reagan?
Maybe a few percentage points more Canadians have effective unions, but they are waning here just as surely as south of the border, like most trends, we just lag a bit. All the growth parts of the ecoomy are practically non-union, and most of the shrinking parts are strongly union.
A case in point is autos and auto parts, in which we are now running a deficit with the U.S. for the first time in a really long time. And, I suspect it will get worse this year, if CAW takes a strike to protect its pay and benefits against the inroads given by the UAW on the other side of the border.
Look at how many Canadian owned resource and metals companies have been bought up in the past two years - Noranda, INCO, Algoma, Stelco, Dofasco. We now only have one Canadian owned metals company of any size. A few decades ago, the Toronto Stock Exchange dominated the world in mining.
We are now more like tenants in our own land than ever before. Not all American, its now more international, but as a country, we have lost economic influence.
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Denny - Heavy Crude
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Re: Scary. Mexican Government Already in Disinformation Mod
by Cid_Yama » Thu 03 Jan 2008, 03:47:45
Canada has Cameco, the world's largest publicly traded uranium company.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameco_Corporation
Also, Goldcorp inc, one of the world's largest gold mining companies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldcorp
Surely there are many others
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameco_Corporation
Also, Goldcorp inc, one of the world's largest gold mining companies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldcorp
Surely there are many others
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry
The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
-
Cid_Yama - Light Sweet Crude
- Posts: 7169
- Joined: Sun 27 May 2007, 03:00:00
- Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
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