[LoneSnark]

What does the minimum wage have to do with peak oil?

While I agree with elimination of price floors for labor, it is a marginal issue as most workers are unaffected by it. While it does harm those it renders unemployable, its impact upon the economy as a whole is tiny, as best I can figure.

That said, if deflation became prevalent and thus the minimum wage grew relative to wages in general then its damage would increase by rendering even larger swaths of the labor force unemployable.

But once it started harming more than just the poor it would quickly be fixed, I have no doubt about it.

[peasea]

it never ceases to amaze me that some people would like to get rid of the min wage "floor". History is littered with the effects of big corp and persons who can get as much as they want and use all sorts of undemocratic ways to force their workings to take less .

hover Dam is one , free market for the boss , resticted market for food and services employed - remember the company shop ? no free market there.

If we have a wage floor then we should have a wage ceiling .

anything else is the lions and gazelles thing again.

Peak oil link to this ? as the economy deteriates due to high price of oil then the rich will do ANYTHING to keep on top ........

P.

[mattduke]

Wages are a market phenomenon dependent upon the productive capabilities of the employee. If any employee produces less than the minimum wage, he will not be hired. If he produces more than the minimum wage, he will have a higher salary. Minimum wage outlaws the employment of entire swaths of low-skilled workers. So by definition minimum wage laws increase unemployment. The fruits of their efforts are subtracted from the supply of available goods, while we must pay additional taxes for "unemployment benefits". These are the ramifications of prohibiting the low skilled workers from trading their labor for money.

[Kingcoal]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jason_h', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', '
')
What "supremacy clause" is this? I can't find any federal supremacy clause in the Constitution. The feds have their jurisdictions, the States have theirs. Unless you are talking about "regulate inter-State commerce," but that is subject to the interpretation of the Supreme Court. There is no de facto federal supremacy over everything, that's just a fantasy invented by federalists.

[joewp]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'W')ages are a market phenomenon dependent upon the productive capabilities of the employee. If any employee produces less than the minimum wage, he will not be hired. If he produces more than the minimum wage, he will have a higher salary. Minimum wage outlaws the employment of entire swaths of low-skilled workers. So by definition minimum wage laws increase unemployment. The fruits of their efforts are subtracted from the supply of available goods, while we must pay additional taxes for "unemployment benefits". These are the ramifications of prohibiting the low skilled workers from trading their labor for money.

[mattduke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joewp', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'W')ages are a market phenomenon dependent upon the productive capabilities of the employee. If any employee produces less than the minimum wage, he will not be hired. If he produces more than the minimum wage, he will have a higher salary. Minimum wage outlaws the employment of entire swaths of low-skilled workers. So by definition minimum wage laws increase unemployment. The fruits of their efforts are subtracted from the supply of available goods, while we must pay additional taxes for "unemployment benefits". These are the ramifications of prohibiting the low skilled workers from trading their labor for money.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'I')t baffles me that you can assert they produce nothing of value when millions pay to watch them perform.

[LoneSnark]

It is your opinion that they are wasting their money, obviously they disagree with you. But who are you to dictate how they can live their life? How would you feel if they were put in charge of picking and choosing what you can spend your money on?

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', 'B')ut who are you to dictate how they can live their life?

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I')t won't happen in our lifetimes. It's just too popular...

[katkinkate]

I heard about a cafe somewhere in California, I think, where the wait staff are not paid at all by the cafe owner and work for tips only. I had the impression the minimum wage wasn't enforced anyway.

[Lanthanide]

Restaurants and cafes in America do not have to abide by the same pay rates as other businesses for their wait staff, as the wait staff are expected to make the majority of their money from tips. This encourages good service, and it really works - service in US restaurants is far better than what you get here in NZ.

[katkinkate]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lanthanide', 'R')estaurants and cafes in America do not have to abide by the same pay rates as other businesses for their wait staff, as the wait staff are expected to make the majority of their money from tips. This encourages good service, and it really works - service in US restaurants is far better than what you get here in NZ.

[Lanthanide]

Compared to NZ restaurant prices, yes. But there could be any number of reasons why the food at US restaurants is cheaper than that in NZ.

Of course, cheaper items on the menu doesn't neccesarily mean the meal is actually cheaper - the normal tip is 15% of your total price, so take all the menu prices and add 15% to get the real cost.

[Fiddlerdave]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')o they pass on they're savings in labour costs to their cutomers in lower prices for the food?

[LoneSnark]

Fiddlerdave, no one said companies passed on savings because they felt charitable. They do it because they will sell nothing unless they do.

As long as the government does not create or enforce monopolies, then the only thing stoping competitors from entering your market is poor profitability. As such, if your market is profitable then competitors will come seeking easy money.

Your statements are only relevant is monopolies are attainable. In a free market free from Government favors and strong enforcement of property and contracts, monopolies can only be defended by spending your time making the best products at the best prices.

As such, this is not a fallacy, more like a paradox, as companies attempting to use every trick in the book discover, to their own horror, that the only trick that works consistently is making the best products at the best prices.

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lanthanide', 'R')estaurants and cafes in America do not have to abide by the same pay rates as other businesses for their wait staff, as the wait staff are expected to make the majority of their money from tips. This encourages good service, and it really works - service in US restaurants is far better than what you get here in NZ.

[joewp]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', '
')As such, this is not a fallacy, more like a paradox, as companies attempting to use every trick in the book discover, to their own horror, that the only trick that works consistently is making the best products at the best prices.

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joewp', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', '
')As such, this is not a fallacy, more like a paradox, as companies attempting to use every trick in the book discover, to their own horror, that the only trick that works consistently is making the best products at the best prices.

[joewp]

Obviously, you missed the point. The cereal is the exact same thing. The "name brand" is brainwashing through marketing, plain and simple, which proves that "the only trick that works is making the best products at the best prices" is a false statement. That me or you have the choice to buy the store brand is irrelevant, since most people buy the advertised "name brand", which shows the power of that advertising to shape the minds of consumers.