[billg]

[url=http://www.rense.com/general79/impend.htm]Impending Destruction Of The US Economy
By Paul Craig Roberts 11-29-7[/url]

disclaimer: im not big fan of Rense anymore but he's has some good stuff

[roccman]

A German perspective of the dollar crash.

The ailing US economy seems to be driving the exchange rate of the dollar inexorably downward, with serious consequences for the global economy. Politicians and central bankers are looking on helplessly as the economic outlook worsens by the day and European companies rack up huge losses.

[lady-t]

from a retail store perspective...sales have sucked since halloween, my store is struggling. we are selling out all the merchandise. i am not going to run it into the ground and not have anything to show for it, on the other hand, tack and saddles might be a good post cliff thing to have for sale. especially if nobody can afford gas. they will have to walk ride their bike or ride a horse. hmmm

[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lady-t', ',') tack and saddles might be a good post cliff thing to have for sale. especially if nobody can afford gas. they will have to walk ride their bike or ride a horse. hmmm

[I_Like_Plants]

Very good posts here!

I think Kunstler is right, the avg. American is so far in debt they don't know whether to shit or go blind ...... lol

I think the German perpective is correct .... in fact those who know German have been getting quite an earful on this subject on shortwave, so I hear.

Here's my own situation: I came back out here 4 months ago, had about $1200 in cash, well, I've managed to piss through that. I have $16 in cash, which I'm saving for a large bottle of cheap whiskey lol. If I'm to get any more cash, I have to earn it somehow, but in my own case, anything I make on the books will be garnished, so I have to earn what I can off the books, playing guitar on the street or drawing pictures or something like that. If I can make a few hundred a month I'll be happier than a pig in shit, that will meet my needs and allow me to save up to pay a BK lawyer and to pay someone to do this year's taxes for me.

Now, for other Americans, they've either been laid off or know they will be, because they will be, about one week after Christmas. Maybe they can't get a job not for fear of garnishment but because there simply aren't any jobs. (A person can make good money cleaning houses etc out here, it pays $8.50 an hour. That's good pay in the US.) Or their car got repo'd and they can't get to jobs any more.

I've noticed for some reason that however things are going for me, they seem to be going for the whole country. I guess it means I am not very original but it does give me a way of knowing what's going on with everyone else!

So, my spending and consumption has gone down to a 10th of what it was. I'm not sure most Americans can get theirs down that far, but they will try. And the economy will collapse and the Dollar with be worth less than the peseta.

[roccman]

Gold up $17.00 today

Bucky back in 75s...

FOMC meeting this week and rate cut...at least 50bp...I actually think 100 BP in the mix...

All empires in decline monetize their debt...we will be no different...

Got Silver??

[roccman]

No link...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U').S. DOLLAR HOLDERS MAY BE FORCED TO ACCEPT IMF RESERVE ASSETS IF THEY WANT
TO DIVERSIFY; FLOOD OF DOLLARS THREATENS GLOBAL ECONOMY


Writing in the Financial Times, former Council on Foreign Relations
economist, C. Fred Bergsten, lays out a global financial crisis management
scenario that calls on the International Monetary Fund to absorb the flood
of dollars that are looking for safety outside of the United States.
Depositors would be issued instruments called SDRs (Special Drawing Rights),
which the IMF defines as, ?an an international reserve asset,? comprised of
a, ?basket of currencies, today consisting of the euro, Japanese yen, pound
sterling, and U.S. dollar.?



How to solve the problem of the dollar

By Fred Bergsten | The Financial Times

The world economy faces an acute policy dilemma that, if mishandled, could
bring on the mother of all monetary crises. Many dollar holders, including
central banks and sovereign wealth funds as well as private investors,
clearly want to diversify into other currencies. Since foreign dollar
holdings total at least $20,000bn, even a modest realisation of these
desires could produce a free fall of the US currency and huge disruptions to
markets and the world economy. Fears of such an outcome have risen sharply
in both official circles and the markets.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/75cb5f2e-a729 ... l?nclick_c
heck=1

[threadbear]

Roccman, What's interesting about the International Monetary Fund is that it's not exactly international, in a true, balanced sense. I think the U.S. treasury owns 51% of it, so any action or solution it proposes would likely be weighted in favor of the U.S.

If the IMF wanted to treat the U.S. as it treated other countries in fiscal crisis, it would insist they raise interest rates to 12%, abolish social programs and subsidies and open their markets to foreign banking interests.

[roccman]

Two short vids on the death of US$

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e18934.htm

[Twilight]

Remember, it's not going to die in a straight line, and it may not die at all, but stagger on like a zombie relic of a bygone era.

The same goes for every other fiat currency. Repeated crises and new flavours of the year will be the name of the game. I wouldn't put it past governments to issue a parallel currency for welfare recipients to use, like a variation of FEMA cards or vouchers in the UK. Those governments who can afford to care less about reputation can always revalue and issue new notes and coins.

I bet people will still have something called dollars a hundred years from now, they will be as interested in barter though.

[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Twilight', 'R')emember, it's not going to die in a straight line, and it may not die at all, but stagger on like a zombie relic of a bygone era.

[mmasters]

United States banks on average borrowed $4.83 billion a day directly from the Federal Reserve in the week ended Dec. 26, up from $4.62 billion a day the previous week, Fed data released Thursday showed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/28/business/28bank.html

Hmm lets see 4.83 x 365 = 1.763 trillion

And that's just high level money!

Everybody repeat after me:

I N F L A T I O N !

[MacG]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', 'U')nited States banks on average borrowed $4.83 billion a day directly from the Federal Reserve in the week ended Dec. 26, up from $4.62 billion a day the previous week, Fed data released Thursday showed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/28/business/28bank.html

Hmm lets see 4.83 x 365 = 1.763 trillion

And that's just high level money!

Everybody repeat after me:

I N F L A T I O N !

[Twilight]

That money has to be repaid. I think they are only rolling over the same loans so banks can settle with each other at the end of each day, as they are no longer willing to lend to each other for that purpose. Actual inflation? They will try. But will it work?

[Revi]

It seems like a race to inflate the dollar. They issue billions, and some great vacuum cleaner sucks them all up. We all pay more and more for our basic necessities and we still don't have enough of these dollars to make ends meet, so they issue more. None of us out here are getting paid any more, so we aren't benefitting from the printing press. The rich are taking all those dollars and turning them into some kind of assets that don't deflate. That deflates the dollar even more, they complain and the fed issues more currency to save more of the people on the top of the system, while those of us on the bottom decide what kind of cat food to eat this week. Fancy feast or friskies?

At the end of the Roman Empire the rich kept their money in gold and everybody else got denari that got progressively more worthless. They were down to 1/2 of one percent silver by the end of the empire. The US government issued over a million $50 gold pieces in 1999,(actually worth far more than $50). Is that the same kind of system? The rich are given something that has real value while the rest of us are walking around with pieces of zinc in our pockets? The more things change the more they stay the same I guess.

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '
') At the end of the Roman Empire the rich kept their money in gold and everybody else got denari that got progressively more worthless. They were down to 1/2 of one percent silver by the end of the empire. The US government issued over a million $50 gold pieces in 1999,(actually worth far more than $50). Is that the same kind of system? The rich are given something that has real value while the rest of us are walking around with pieces of zinc in our pockets? The more things change the more they stay the same I guess.

[Revi]

I am really getting worried about this. What is the average person to do? There is only so much you can do to your house and lifestyle before you start to chop into the real meat of the budget. We're getting there soon. We like to eat out, go to the movies, buy good food. I hope we'll be able to do that, but I see this next year ending that for us.

This is the beginning of the bad times. If we have this kind of inflation all next year we'll be down to beans and rice. I lived in Guatemala for 2 years in the 80's and I can cook tasty frijoles. I suppose we'll have to get back into it. I say that cast iron is the next precious metal. I have a bunch of beanpots. We have lots of maple syrup so we can make the New England variety of beans too. There's always a bright side to everything.

[Blacksmith]

(1) Don't count the United States out just yet.

(2) Lower dollar equals more jobs at home?

[manu]

Trade in whatever $ you have left for gold or silver. Start a garden in your back yard. The party's over. Or, just pop some prozac, drink a beer and tune in to Fox news and watch the other lemmings as they go sailing over the cliff.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Twilight', 'T')hat money has to be repaid. I think they are only rolling over the same loans so banks can settle with each other at the end of each day, as they are no longer willing to lend to each other for that purpose. Actual inflation? They will try. But will it work?