[Heineken]

Kunstler is always pointing out how Americans live the way they do because there AREN'T that many choices, Basil. They're born into this infrastructure and have to fit into it. Our individual choices are inevitably steered by the physical impact of the millions of choices that preceded us.

I agree that America still offers considerable freedom of choice, but IMO many of the options---constrained by the resource pinch---have become more theoretical than real. So, you can still choose, but you may not actually receive what you choose.

In other words, freedom has become more illusory for many. More of a dream, almost a myth, and less of a reality.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', 'W')hat a massive whine-fest!
Does anyone here ever pick up a history book? Anytime the country has been challenged by war or the threat of war , the president assumes more powers, people grumble, "oh, its the end of the country!, boo, hoo!"

[Fishman]

Heineken
Your opinion. Not that of most, regardless of party.

[Pops]

Nice post Seahorse and others.

The thing that always encourages and inspires me is there are no weapons appearing before a change in power.

I’m not blind to the abuses or manipulations but I find that reassuring.


The other thing I would mention is that because of the framework of the constitution, changes come slow – way to slow for many of us, but the pendulum does swing.

Since the majority of time a pendulum is nearest the center I believe there is no better alternative.

[kevincarter]

Seeing it from the outside I can assure you that all small western governments are looking right to the US for directions, and they will look closer as the crisis develops. So if you guys get into total fascism you can bet we’ll get there too, fast. I’m not into cheerleading but you’ve got a great constitution, an armed population that has sworn allegiance to it and a country full of resources, if you guys don’t preserve the concept of freedom no one will.

Do you know the beginning of the constitution in my country?

“Me, the king”

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'L')ife in the US is certainly easy for many, Basil, but I don't think it's a valid generalization. Also, the line between "easy" and "quality" is pretty ambiguous. These are hard terms to define.

In my view, the "average" American has an office job, earns maybe $45,000 a year, is a slave to a mortgage, sits in traffic a lot, battles the crowds at the mall and the supermarket, juggles bills and credit-card debt, runs endless petty errands . . . not my view of "easy" OR "quality."

Anyway, this is getting off topic . . . my fault.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n the US you can make the choice to do drugs all day, pop a kid out every 9 months, and pick up the government check twice a month. It's easy, not quality.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'M')ost young people don't have shit these days

[kpeavey]

Thomas Jefferson Wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

[kpeavey]

Nothing has changed with the youth of today, that is. I've made some progress.

[seahorse]

Fishman wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')eahorse, get a real job.

[billp]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f you want to know how our government gets it's authority to do things you need to read the Constitution and then study Supreme Court rulings. The Supreme Court exists to defend the people from over reaching government authority; they really have no other function.

[Heineken]

I think that anyone who can't see straight through the "war on terror" doesn't deserve a seat here. I have never seen so ham-handed, transparent a ruse as the "war on terror."

You could just see the US Empire twisting around for a while after the USSR collapsed, looking for a replacement vehicle. Then 9/11 happened and BINGO! What a great excuse for grabbing even more government power and pissing even more heavily on the Constitution, as Seahorse so eloquently and sadly describes in his OP.

The 9/11 terrorists merely started the damage that our own government is and will be forevermore extending.

[Cloud9]

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights is an ideal that resulted from a compromise between those that wanted a strong central government and those that wanted individual rights. Hamilton and his people longed for a system similar to a monarchy. Jefferson and his people wanted a system that protected individual freedom. From the day it was created there was constant conflict between those two factions. Over the last two hundred years, we have witnessed the convergence of power in Washington. The willingness of the oval office to assume the powers of a dictatorship is nothing new. Good lord, look at the alien and sedition acts under Adams, the suspension of habeus corpus under Lincoln or the locking up of Japanese Americans under Roosevelt.

The principles in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights have never been about what we are. They have always been about what we ought to be. These principles are goals to strive for, they are not goals reached. These ideals are not broken. We are distracted.

If the cataclysm predicted on this forum unfolds, our greatest challenge will be to prevent our government from degenerating into a fascist dictatorship or communist oligarchy.

The two political parties have been highly successful in distracting us over splinter issues like abortion, gun abolition and gay marriages. Meanwhile, the social welfare roles have been expanded, our borders have dissolved, our industrial base has been squandered and the nation has fallen into a sea of debt. These are the real issues.

A great depression may refocus the body politic. We have to guarantee that it is not distracted by torch light parades or chicken in every pot speeches. I suspect that trying times are coming and you young folks best not take your eye off the ball.

[kpeavey]

Seahorse Wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')homas Jefferson, but remember, he didn't have a real job, he was only a thinker and a writer.

[seahorse]

Hmmm, like I said, sounds like he didn't have a real job, but lots of time to think and come up with novel ground breaking ideas.

[Cloud9]

Jefferson's job experience would be a bit like managing a WalMart. A clear cut aristocracy overseeing the labor of a slave class.

[Kingcoal]

What is the point of this thread? Are we saying that Congress and the President are violating the Constitution and the Judicial Branch doesn't care? No law that Congress writes and the President enforces is real until it is tested in court and that includes executive orders. GWB has already been slapped on the wrist at least once by the court. I want to hear specific examples where people have been harmed by unauthorized use of power and courts have upheld it.

[denverdave]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')e have teeth and not only the right, but the obligation to bite

[seahorse]

Kingcoal wrote:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')re we saying that Congress and the President are violating the Constitution and the Judicial Branch doesn't care? No law that Congress writes and the President enforces is real until it is tested in court and that includes executive orders.