[Specop_007]

Interesting this thread came up.

My father passed away Nov 24th.

Yeah, it still hurts. A lot.

[threadbear]

I was such an unstable and physically ill weirdo when I was younger, I didn't have kids because the kinds of posts I'm reading, I was afraid I'd engender. Many people shouldn't have children and I have great sympathy for those of you who have or had them for parents. There are so many people who are just too mentally or emotionally ill to be having kids.

I haven't lost my father, but wished I could have misplaced him through my childhood and early twenties. He's now a sweet old man, who is constantly telling me he loves me.

This is a lovely thing, but also rather confusing. It's not like, "What happens in Las Vegas stays in Las Vegas". I would love it if "what happens in your childhood, stays in your childhood" but that doesn't seem to work. I have to appreciate the new improved sweet old dad, while lugging around the corpse of the first generation father prototype bastard, in my emotional baggage

Plants, Unknown Element, Auscanman--Your parents--ohmygod.

Frank, You are so lucky to grieve in an unambiguous way, and harbour sweet memories of your father. Do you think it's odd that you think of him every day? It seems kind of lovely, to me.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', '
')
He is the most self-centered, unbalanced, nut job, I've ever met.

[I_Like_Plants]

As I point out in my post, my parents would be considered seriously mentally sick and expelled from the tribe or simply killed, in any normal human society. But, within the rules of US society, they were considered healthy and normal.

I can't point to anything mentally wrong with them, within the framework of American society. They didn't give a shit about us because it's normal and American to care only about oneself. Mom didn't even cook for us as soon as we were old enough to cook for ourselves, which we're talking about 12 or so, because cooking for someone implies you care about them. Why do you think boxed breakfast cereals are an American phenomenon? I'm surprised there are not automatic feeders like some people get for the family dog.

But they are only guilty of being good American. They embodied every American parenting value.

[threadbear]

Plants, Your parents ARE unique, the way you describe them. I think it goes beyond culture, unless you think that American culture is turning most people into sociopaths. Most people love their kids, even when they're a bit sociopathic. I mean, look at Tony Soprano.

[Heineken]

Frank, it appears to me that your dad has become a sort of spiritual touchstone for you, and there's nothing wrong with that. In a certain way, our parents can continue to provide guidance even after they're gone.

I have been slowly losing my father (now 82) for a long time. He has PTSD (a relic of WWII) and is on many meds that chemically lobotomize him. He has worsening dementia. Prostate cancer almost killed him ten years ago, and they cut his testicles off. He's lost his sense of balance, and is staggering all over the place. I've begged him to use a walker or at least a cane, but he's refused with that theatrical stubbornness typical of many old folk. "I'm fine!" he protests. "I don't need a cane!"

Two weeks ago, he fell and broke his hip. Now he's in a local nursing home trying to recover from the surgery. With some luck, he'll be able to return home with functioning legs in about six weeks.

I visited him today and he looked almost completely blank. I could not "find" him except for a brief moment in which he emerged from the geriatric goo.

A nursing home is a land of living death. God what a stink when you walk into the place. That's not my idea of an option.

I'll try to remember him as he once was---strong, virile, black-haired, a bit scary, actually. A loner with a passion for brainy things like chess and Mahler.

He taught me to love and be kind to animals, and I'll always love him for that.

[Kingcoal]

In reading some of the posts, I'm struck by the criticism some people lay on their parents. Spend some time with them while they are still alive, because when they are gone, they are gone forever. Having lost both my mom and my grandmother at such an early age left me feeling alienated by a lot of people around me because they still had a complete family. I was a freak, an outcast, as were my friends. Most of my friends came from broken families also. My dad took my moms' death really hard. He became belligerent and violent; thank God I had my sister to pull through it. He remarried and we became the unwanted step children. I had a lot of animosity towards my father for the way he treated us, but in the last couple of years before he died, I made him proud, graduating college and we reconciled. I realized that he was just a guy trying to keep a roof over our heads and put food on the table, "what the hell else do you want," was his attitude. It ain't easy to be a provider to a bunch of whiny, spoiled kids, I realize that now. When I remember him, I remember him that way, he never ran out on us, he stayed employed and took care of us.

I say all this because try to imagine not having your parents anymore. Sure they aren't perfect, but hell, they brought you into the world and if you have problems with that, well maybe you should reconsider your own life. There are a lot of times I wish I could call my dad up and tell him that he was right about a lot of things. I don't have that precious privilege anymore.

Any day you can get up and out of bed is a good day.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', '.')..within the rules of US society, they were considered healthy and normal.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'I') had a lot of animosity towards my father for the way he treated us, but in the last couple of years before he died, I made him proud, graduating college and we reconciled. I realized that he was just a guy trying to keep a roof over our heads and put food on the table, "what the hell else do you want," was his attitude. It ain't easy to be a provider to a bunch of whiny, spoiled kids, I realize that now. When I remember him, I remember him that way, he never ran out on us, he stayed employed and took care of us.

[yeahbut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'I') had a lot of animosity towards my father for the way he treated us, but in the last couple of years before he died, I made him proud, graduating college and we reconciled. I realized that he was just a guy trying to keep a roof over our heads and put food on the table, "what the hell else do you want," was his attitude. It ain't easy to be a provider to a bunch of whiny, spoiled kids, I realize that now. When I remember him, I remember him that way, he never ran out on us, he stayed employed and took care of us.

[SchroedingersCat]

All grandparents dead by the time I was 10. Since then, lost my mother, two sisters and a brother. And a few good friends. Never goes away, but gets easier to deal with as time goes by.

My dad is still alive. He was a standard American dad growing up. Sucked. Had a brush with cancer when he was retiring and has made a 180 since then. I almost respect him now.

I believe that as long as we remember someone they are still here. Tell people about the ones you've lost. Bring up any good or inspiring thing they have done or said. My mother had a saying for every situation. I use them often. My favorite: That really gets my goat.

I never quite knew where that came from, but I keep it close.

[threadbear]

Yeahbut, I read somewhere a while back that there was no word or term for physical "child abuse", up until the 1940's. That was just how you brought up children. It was called being a parent. I guess fathers that merely withheld minimal praise are to be applauded for transcending beating their kids physically, preferring the sadism of a slow emotional death.

People do much more damage emotionally with that treatment than when they beat their kids half to death.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'I')nteresting this thread came up.

My father passed away Nov 24th.

Yeah, it still hurts. A lot.

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'P')lants, Your parents ARE unique, the way you describe them. I think it goes beyond culture, unless you think that American culture is turning most people into sociopaths. Most people love their kids, even when they're a bit sociopathic. I mean, look at Tony Soprano.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', '.')..psychopathic and dehumanized is the normal American way now.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

Spec: I am sorry for your loss. I can't relate since most of my life was spent wishing to god I'd been adopted or that they would die. But I can imagine how I'd feel if something happened to one of my kids and you have my deepest respects.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', '
')
He is the most self-centered, unbalanced, nut job, I've ever met.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', '.')..psychopathic and dehumanized is the normal American way now.

[Kingcoal]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'I') had a lot of animosity towards my father for the way he treated us, but in the last couple of years before he died, I made him proud, graduating college and we reconciled. I realized that he was just a guy trying to keep a roof over our heads and put food on the table, "what the hell else do you want," was his attitude. It ain't easy to be a provider to a bunch of whiny, spoiled kids, I realize that now. When I remember him, I remember him that way, he never ran out on us, he stayed employed and took care of us.

[Aaron]

This past June Dad died.

Beat the living shit out of me... so many times I can't possibly recall.

Leather straps & wood.

I have never attended a public school that didn't beat me with wood either.

My own son is 18... had one spanking from me. Open hand on the butt 3 swats. He was about 7 or so & doing something dangerous.

Never again.

It's fine to say that dad was better than his dad in many ways... although I'm having a tough time thinking what he was subject to that was worse than being beaten with leather straps on a regular basis.

Then again... screw that.

It's the ego-centric, megalomania of these control freaks which has brought us to this current situation. The insane desire to control everything, and the arrogance to think that's possible.

In the end though... he was just a man doing what he thought was right.

Regardless of how very wrong it was.

May he rest peacefully.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

I got off lucky. I only got sunlight dish detergent poured down my throat, or bars of soap scraped on my teeth. Whipped with a small bullwhip, or very thin leather belts. Made to kneel for hours on elbow macaroni. I got hit in the head enough etc. But I never had cigarettes put out on me, or stuck with pins like a voodoo doll.

I think at some point you just have to realize that some people are broken. And there isn't anything that can fix them, or help you with the memories.

All spanking does is teach that might does make right, and that if you don't wnat to have to use your brains or are frustrated that its ok to use your fists, and its especially ok to hurt someone smaller or weaker than you.

Like everything, its a choice. they made bad choices. we will hopefully make better ones. only history and time will tell.