[RdSnt]

Great, another "gold from lead" story.

[Laughs_Last]

So how is catalytic depolymerization different from the familiar thermal depolymerization?

[bmcics]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Laughs_Last', 'S')o how is catalytic depolymerization different from the familiar thermal depolymerization?

[pup55]

Update:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')everal residents are circulating petitions for tougher state regulations against odors they allege are coming from a plant that converts poultry byproducts into fuel oil.

[piper]

Excuse my ignorance but as I read this process:

http://www.globalfinest.com/tech

...........is not TDP with turkey guts as described in the previous post..

This process is processes oils and plastics into the standard EN590 diesel, with both input sources being crude.

[AirlinePilot]

Please help me to understand this...... Im not big on chemistry. Somehow Im having a lot of trouble believing the numbers here. hawk machine link

[fluffy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'P')lease help me to understand this...... Im not big on chemistry. Somehow Im having a lot of trouble believing the numbers here.

hawk machine link

[BastardSquad]

If I'm not mistaken,a fairly large amount of electricity is required to produce microwaves for heat.Fossil fuel(s),most likely in the form of coal,is being used to produce the electricity needed to gasify organic materials in this process.

As fluffy pointed out,there's nothing in the world of chemistry that forbids this process.Gasification is a centuries old technology,in this case microwaves are being used to break large hydrocarbon chains into a form more easily used as fuel.

Remember - THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH!

(assuming you had limitless amounts of free electricity,you'd still need limitless amounts of organic feedstock)

[peripato]

Isn't this just another form of thermal DP?

[whereagles]

Seems so... depolymerization does work, but has negative EROEI. (I.e. ER < EI)

[fluffy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BastardSquad', '
')(assuming you had limitless amounts of free electricity,you'd still need limitless amounts of organic feedstock)

[AirlinePilot]

So they use X amount of the byproduct(to power the machine) to get X x17 amount of fuel? This is the part i have a problem with. Can anyone link me to a discussion of depolymerization and its EROEI?

Seems they are claiming some miracle but they are forgetting the energy originally input to the material! Yikes.

[dissimulo]

It shouldn't be any problem to get energy out of petrochemical products. It also shouldn't be a problem to produce a self-sustaining process for pulling out the energy and using part of it to continue.

However, if they claim this process produces EROEI>1, they are not counting the energy that it took to produce the products they are breaking down. In addition, while I haven't checked, I doubt they are counting the energy necessary to:

* Collect the materials
* Ship the materials
* Separate/disassemble the materials
* Dispose of waste products

It is recycling. When applied to matter, recycling results in less new product than old product. There is no reason to think it is any different with energy.

[Dezakin]

Its a neat technology though. So it has limited volume. So what?

[pup55]

I agree with whoever said it is a scale problem.

1 ton of oil=7.33 barrels of oil=40 million BTU's
1 barrel of oil= about 5.4 million BTU's

So 10 tons of garbage will produce about 3 barrels of oil equivalent (net) exclusive of what it will take to run the microwave.

10 tons of garbage equals less than .5 ton oil.

So a million barrels of oil will require about 3.4 million tons of garbage.

[AirlinePilot]

I'm kind of interested in what the EROEI of this process is If anyone knows.

I think the problem Im seeing is that no one seems to include the cost (in energy) to collect all that stuff and process it. Then everyone seems to forget that you already spent energy to make whatever it is you are recycling.

Agree on the scale issue too.

[Dezakin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'I')'m kind of interested in what the EROEI of this process is If anyone knows.

I think the problem Im seeing is that no one seems to include the cost (in energy) to collect all that stuff and process it. Then everyone seems to forget that you already spent energy to make whatever it is you are recycling.

Agree on the scale issue too.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'I')'m kind of interested in what the EROEI of this process is If anyone knows.

I think the problem Im seeing is that no one seems to include the cost (in energy) to collect all that stuff and process it. Then everyone seems to forget that you already spent energy to make whatever it is you are recycling.

Agree on the scale issue too.

[charliehelyes]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization

Making oil from waste products at $80 a barrel if production was ramped up enough could produce a large amount of the worlds oil

[charliehelyes]

http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2003/An ... 1may03.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization

thermal depolymerization just when you thought humanity was doomed we pull this out the bag!