[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('virgincrude', 'O')kay, so that's at least two of you willing and happy to submit to Big Brother.

[virgincrude]

TWilliam, me, jumping to conclusions?

Have you read the book?

Because that's what we're supposed to be discussing. I give you an overview of what's to be found out by reading it, (obviously my opinion) and two people reply, basically refuting my opinion on the basis of their own, not on the basis of having read the same evidence. If you can't be bothered, or don't have time, or are not interested in reading the book, you are voluntarily maintaining your current mind-set and whatever opinion you have formed. The book offers several jarring versions of history (amply backed with evidence) which directly contradict our perceived, established views. It challenges your assumptions on current events to such an extent, that it can make you permanently suspicious of every 'official' story, even those which appear to contain a grain of truth, such is the extent and complexity of the manipulation carried out by the subservient, controlled, media, historians, opinion-makers etc.,

Be aware many of our assumptions of free thought, and the information that makes up our minds for us, is manipulated in order to achieve a certain result. One of those results is the evident 'double thinking' you're engaging in, by comparing the idea of an omnipresent One World Government, with the evident break down of society and cultural disintegration. A lovely argument for those seeking to control all of us: look what 'our freedoms' have done for us: wars, paedophilia, cancer, racism! The basic argument here, is unless someone reigns us all in, we'll end up destroying ourselves and the planet: classic Bilderberger/Tavistock mind propaganda. Who is to have that responsibility? At the moment, your voting powers have been so controlled and reduced that no matter who you vote in power, to look after your 'interests', is ultimately only going to do what is right for those who control him/her. They are ALL Bilderbergers, or CFR members, or Trilateralists. What's wrong with that? read the book.

I agree there can be no freedom without limits. I do not agree that some third party I don't get to vote for, in some globalised burocracy decides everything for me, including just what freedom's I can enjoy. These people already control what news you get, what entertainment you get, what your children study, and do you control, say, what your bank does with your money? What freedoms do you really have?

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('virgincrude', 'H')ave you read the book?

[virgincrude]

Indee TWilliam, I am ready to accept Anarchy (if one bothered to actually know what it means) in replacement for any fascist kind of all controlling world government, any time.

I also agree completely that society in general is not going to accept that alternative, partly because of the ignorance I share with them over what exactly Anarchy would involve. I am suspicious that it would be a far more 'organic' society than any we have so far allowed to form. i.e better than the economy based set up we have rigged for ourselves.

My problem with the idea that they may indeed be working with humanity's best interests in mind is that I know of no person, group, political doctrine nor organisation which can be entirely trusted with that monumental concept. In humanity's best interests ... hmm. I think that's what religion is there for, no?

In any case, as you say, we require a psychological and emotional maturation simply to deal with Peak Oil, let alone a New World Order. So we're pretty much fucked which ever way you look at it.

[Carlhole]

I'm reading Peter Dale Scott's "The Road To 911: Wealth, Empire and The Future Of America" right now.

So far, his book presents a thesis that, at least within America, there is indeed an "overworld" to use his term. And I would agree that there IS an overworld, a "deep-state" as distinct from a "public-state". I don't believe that the POTUS is the most powerful man in the world. Power is usually held by factions of which the POTUS and more visible politicians are products.

But the overworld as presented by Scott is one of intensely competing factions and views - which accords with my own understanding of human beings' behavior in groups. And the historical record referenced by Scott is solid tangible rock compared to the speculative treatment usually given The Bilderberger or The Illuminati authors.

Books on the complex machinations of the international super-elite cannot include any sort of microscopic, detailed historical underpinning because The Bilderberger conferences, and cooperative operations they jointly perform elsewhere, if any,are secret.

The authors of books about the Illuminati, etc can only talk about macroscopic events such as the 1973 Arab-Israeli War and the subsequent rapid rise in oil prices, for example. They will interpret that macroscopic history from their own presumptions about the super-elite's ostensible purposes. But they cannot back up their claims with detailed history.

So, any reader of that stuff is forced into a realm of speculation that cannot be tested or investigated or properly evaluated. One is left merely with raised antennnas and a suspicion of authority - something that's quite obtainable reading more standard stuff.

On a gut level, I have to wonder what has happened to the normal human tendency to compete and form intransigent factions which viciously compete with one another for power, money and control? And if these elites have found a way to conduct human affairs in perfect harmonious agreement, all the time, with nary a peep of contentious debate leaking out into the public, then they indeed must be some alien-human hybrid species! Human Beings simply never fail to fight over power even within a particular party or corporation.

I think that The Bilderberger conferences are annual events in which prominent, influential people throughout the world get together without the hassle of the press reporting on them - so that they can express ideas freely without having to answer to their constituencies or watchdog groups for each little verbal infraction.

If the press were allowed to attend these events, each member would have to put on their Harlequin public face, or censor themselves drastically, or not attend at all.

So the only argument any of The Bilderberger authors really bring to bear, is that this conference ought to be declared illegal based on arbitrary speculative fears.

[timbo]

Control is an illusion. To paraphrase "They will be the first against the wall when the collapse comes"

[virgincrude]

Carlhole, you are once again jumping to conclusions. Just because every book you’ve ever read about the Bilderbergs has included mere speculation does not mean that this particular book is the same. The author has been investigating the Bilderberg meetings for 12 years and presents plenty of ‘solid tangible rock’ evidence to support the theory of global plans.

Almost all prominent members of mainstream media in the US are either members of the CFR or the TC. In fact, Estulin's research reveals that "the Council on Foreign Relations creates and delivers psycho-political operations by manipulating people's reality through a 'tactic of deception', placing Council members on both sides of an issue. The deception is complete when the public is led to believe that its own best interests are being served while the CFR policy is being carried out."

No one could have said it better than David Rockefeller, founder of the Trilateral Commission, a Bilderberg member and board member of the Council On Foreign Relations in his Memoirs:

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure-one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."

Unlike books on the Illuminati or other super-elite you can think of, this book details and quotes extensively from historic records such as interviews, national security releases, and the accounts of those themselves involved. You assume the secrecy of the Bilderberg meetings is based on some almost supernatural ability to keep a secret. There’s nothing supernatural about it all, once you understand the network of control involving ALL major media. The press are invited to the Bilderberg meetings (rather, the owners or editor-in-chief such as Murdoch, Berlusconi, Conrad Black, and a surprising string of mainstream US TV journalists) on the understanding that nothing they discuss shall be made public. The meetings are conducted in a series of separate round table discussions, members from each then going on to form different discussion groups on a set agenda of topics. These meetings generally serve the purpose of keeping the ultimate goal hidden from immediate scrutiny by most of the participants, who are invariably guided towards a particular conclusion, which then becomes ‘policy’.

An example of what can happen to journalists who breach the code of silence:
In the 'Lombard' column of the Financial Times, C. Gordon Tether wrote on May 6 1975: 'If the Bilderberg Group is not a conspiracy of some sort, it is conducted in such a way as to give a remarkably good imitation of one.' In a column written almost a year later, for the March 3 l976 edition, Tether wrote: 'The Bilderbergers have always insisted upon clothing their comings and goings in the closest secrecy. Until a few years back, this was carried to such lengths that their annual conclave went entirely unmarked in the world's press. In the more recent past, the veil has been raised to the extent of letting it be known that the meetings were taking place. But the total ban on the reporting of what went on has remained in force....Any conspiratologist who has the Bilderbergers in his sights will proceed to ask why it is that, if there is so little to hide, so much effort is devoted to hiding it.'
This column never appeared: it was censored by the Financial Times editor Mark Fisher (himself a member of the Trilateral Commission), and Tether was finally dismissed from the 'Lombard' column in August 1976.

You said: “I think that The Bilderberger conferences are annual events in which prominent, influential people throughout the world get together without the hassle of the press reporting on them - so that they can express ideas freely without having to answer to their constituencies or watchdog groups for each little verbal infraction.” –
Well done, that’s EXACTLY what they want you to think.

Elite organizations like the Council on Foreign relations and the Bilderberg, covert players like M16, CIA and NSA, and the dual role Secret Service, the World Trade Organization, World Bank and International Monetary fund, the private global financial/banking system - all these are influential, powerful elements of the System. Critically important to them all, is the media as formal propaganda and information control system.

Founder member of the Bilderberg and CFR David Rockerfeller said:
"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."- David Rockefeller Baden-Baden, Germany 1991

“Our plans for the world”- what right does a world class BANKER have to decide and plan on the future of the WORLD?

This subservient media is now feeding all of us the version of events which the CFR and Bilderbergers WANT us to receive.
Your opinions (like mine) are formed by information gathered and exchanged, it is very unlikely that you suspect your opinions are actually the result of subtle manipulation, just as public opinion is the result of manipulation planned and carried out by the Council on Foreign Relations and sister groups. Did you know that from 1928-1972 every single President of the United States has been a member of the CFR, or administrations (such as Regan’s) made up of 313 members of the CFR? Do you know, or care what the CFR do/have done, or perhaps the fact that you don’t get to vote on who is a member of the CFR doesn’t bother you either, because surely, they’re only looking after your best interests, hmm?

[Angry_Chimp]

BILDERBERG: THE SYSTEMIC CONSPIRACY - Daniel Estulin link

BILDERBERG: BIG, BAD & UGLY: Daniel Estulin link

DANIEL ESTULIN: Demand Destruction link

[Armageddon]

Great interview

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e19016.htm

[mmasters]

Thanks for posting.

Was interesting to listen to someone else having most the same views as myself.

[threadbear]

Peter Dale Scott does the best job of describing how power actually works. He's not a traditional structuralist who views those in control as part of a monolith, who work in a coordinated way to oppress the masses. That's an overly simple and incomplete picture. Their are different factions, different powers and principalities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_uad3-RsQk

[DrBang]

"Was interesting to listen to someone else having most the same views as myself."



mmasters

There does come a point where if you accept enough information collected from this direction and digest what it means, where you start to draw conclusions.

Ultimately I could see it was human nature.

What does the average power hungry control freak want?:

Once you are a millionaire, become a billionaire

Once you are a billionaire, climb to he top o the pile of your colleagues

Once you reach the top, stay there for the rest of your life

Once that is secured, ensure your family and offspring follow you and stay at the top of the pile. Secure your dynasty. Make sure competition is weakened and can't threaten the position of your family dynasty.

You see this pattern all through history. Coming to these conclusions were surreal. Once plugged in though, it was easy to see the same pattern again and again.

We are being managed and our consent is being manufactured. Our interests and even our well being is being traded to make a small number of people rich and powerful.

Their authority only exists because we allow it to.

But then you already knew that.

Dr Bang

[jupiters_release]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'P')eter Dale Scott does the best job of describing how power actually works. He's not a traditional structuralist who views those in control as part of a monolith, who work in a coordinated way to oppress the masses. That's an overly simple and incomplete picture. Their are different factions, different powers and principalities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_uad3-RsQk

[Chuckmak]

I was reading the comments section, and here's the opinion I'm starting to agree with:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f they're such stone cold rulers, why did they let this book get published? That's the part I don't get. Any thoughts?

[jupiters_release]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chuckmak', 'I') was reading the comments section, and here's the opinion I'm starting to agree with:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f they're such stone cold rulers, why did they let this book get published? That's the part I don't get. Any thoughts?

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chuckmak', 'I') was reading the comments section, and here's the opinion I'm starting to agree with:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f they're such stone cold rulers, why did they let this book get published? That's the part I don't get. Any thoughts?

[jupiters_release]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chuckmak', 'I') was reading the comments section, and here's the opinion I'm starting to agree with:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f they're such stone cold rulers, why did they let this book get published? That's the part I don't get. Any thoughts?

[threadbear]

Yep, as long as on-line forums remain a sublimated form of sniper fire, we're safe.

[kadoomsoon]

Much misinformation. The big guys do not attend these meetings. They send representatives. If you are going to the balderbork, you are not the rulers of the world, that is where they get their orders every year to co-ordinate on the latest topic. The really Powerful do not attend.

Balders (are old and bald) but they do not run the world, they do not decide the next war, they don't decide when to collapse the economy, they are just type A puppets with their specialty, going to conform their corporation for the next big event for globalism. What's hot and what's not. Showing off their wealth and somewhat power and acting snooty and obeying their orders.

Don't worry about them, the real leaders think of them as disposable.

FINAL important point:
Anyone proporting the B's are the rulers and holding secret meetings are shills. Stop listening to LOUD MOUTH and BULLHORNS and planned DISINFO.interesting that he is allowed a gazillion of his videos to play on GOOGLE VIDEO with nary a one pulled off?

Mr. Disinfo.
He catches you with some truth, then points the finger at the wrong guys. He wants you to think the baldingbugs and the lluminaughties and alleged area 51 aliens are the perps.Soon you won't complain, a peep out of you will get your account shut off...

The real guys are the ones that are NEVER talked about.

but who cares. you can't stop them now. Hurry up I say, lets get this over with.

[mmasters]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kadoomsoon', 'M')uch misinformation. The big guys do not attend these meetings. They send representatives. If you are going to the bilderburg meeting, you are not the rulers of the world, that is where they get their orders every year to co-ordinate on the latest topic. The really Powerful do not attend.