[NevadaGhosts]

Peak oil and faith in human ingenuity? Give me a break...

Humans are some of the dumbest creatures on earth. Period. I see this stupidity every day at the university where I work. And I thought university students and faculty were supposed to be intelligent. Yah right. I just have to laugh every time someone says that human ingenuity or technology will save us from our own distruction.

Just read this interesting story:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6875358/?GT1=6065

I almost fell out of my chair when I read this story.

[stu]

This is one of the more stranger sides to todays world that I can't quite figure out.

With the Internet we have more access to any information then we have ever had, but yet dumbing down seems to be rampant and people are just getting more and more stupid.

As for human ingenuity- Surely we are making technical advances every year. I have faith that there are a group of people who avoid all the parts of society that turn you into a cretin and can actually invent something that will have a minor effect on our energy needs.

I just think that it will be done too late.

[Guest]

Year 2323. Great new discovery! The world's scientists are rejocing the invention of a new and miraculous device. It has been said that this device might fix our lighting problems forever! They have decided to name this wax creation a "candle." Anyone who wishes to purchase one will be able to at a cost of 3 gold coins each. Seeing as though "candles" are expected to be a luxury good, only 5000 will be produced.

Behold the miracle of science! We may invent tons of stuff in the future, but none of it will be as advanced as the things that currently surrond us. And the miracles of the future will not be as accesable to the general public do to the eventual collapse of the Middle Class.

[NevadaGhosts]

It's interesting to think that human ingenuity and technology is what got us into this whole mess in the first place today, such as peak oil, pollution, and world overpopulation. I think many humans today are just plain ignorant, immature, lazy, and stupid. But of course, I live in the USA. Are humans de-evolving? Perhaps.

[MikeB]

Great quotation from James Kunstler in "The End of Suburbia":

"The more media we create, the more crap with fill it with" [or something to that effect].

[stu]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NevadaGhosts', 'I')t's interesting to think that human ingenuity and technology is what got us into this whole mess in the first place today, such as peak oil, pollution, and world overpopulation. I think many humans today are just plain ignorant, immature, lazy, and stupid. But of course, I live in the USA. Are humans de-evolving? Perhaps.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NevadaGhosts', 'H')umans are some of the dumbest creatures on earth. Period. I see this stupidity every day at the university where I work. And I thought university students and faculty were supposed to be intelligent. Yah right. I just have to laugh every time someone says that human ingenuity or technology will save us from our own distruction.

[arocoun_gst1]

Hey, NevadaGhosts (and everyone, really), don't pin this idiocy on humans as a whole, or human nature, or any of that. It's almost 100% our inherited European culture, in all its nature-hating infinite-growth-oriented imperialist glory, that has lead to the problem of modern society's unsustainability. Believe it or not (I have to constantly remind myself of this), there are and have been peoples who lived in sustainable, harmonious societies; and in fact, up until a few thousand years ago, the vast majority of mankind lived in hunter-gatherer communities which were completely sustainable. It was due to the imperialism of historical Europe's capitalist argrarian (and eventually industrial) society that their culture of unsustainability was spread worldwide, it was thanks to their culture's ruthless Christian greed that other societies (including the sustainable ones) were destroyed and/or assimilated, and it is thanks to those Europeans that humanity is in such a mess.

On a more positive note, I'm glad that Europe today is almost the complete opposite of Europe of the past, embracing reason and showing concern for the long-term good of the world and its people. Too bad America can't make a similar turnaround in its policies.

[arocoun]

Sorry, that last post is mine.

{Got ya covered; EE}

[MikeB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's almost 100% our inherited European culture, in all its nature-hating infinite-growth-oriented imperialist glory

[judgenotourselves]

I am not entirely sure that Europe is as it seems.

The south of England is in the process of turning into one massive megapolis..a super city with green spaces interspersed. Motorway mania and high street shopping is gripping the newly joined East European EU with the vengence of the long deprived.

The EU itself is a project intended to emulate the achievements of the US. Europe, like China and India, and Australasia and Latin America, and sweltering Africa and the rest of the globe including our devout and apparently feudal muslim brothers, is enamoured of the American dream.....it is a deam to end all dreams...it is seductive...and we are under its spell. A world of endless opportunity....consumption.....change.....the list is endless....and all powered by one resource.....

Are we stupid...or merely expressing a reasonable want for a dream that is unfortunately finite. U be the judge.

[trespam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MikeB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's almost 100% our inherited European culture, in all its nature-hating infinite-growth-oriented imperialist glory

[MikeB]

trespam:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o it seems inevitable that a planet such as ours will find a culture that sucks everything up until it--and the ecosystem with it--crashes against the limitations of the earth-side petri dish.

[Itch]

Well, if we're going to mention why people are stupid, despite all of the information they have access to, I think one of the most significant causes of this mental state has something to do with the food that people eat.

When there are people who have been raised on fast food, cafeteria food, or any other similar matter that no self-respecting person would eat, it's no wonder that they turn out the way they do. Food is especially important during a human's development; their bodies need proper nutrients in order to develop to their capacity. When these shit weasels stuff their faces with potato chips, hot dogs, and other garbage, they aren't getting the required nutrients that will aid the body's development; their just shoveling down sludge that harms the body. By the time they are finished growing, they will have a body that never reached its full potential.

There are plenty of other factors that might contribute to mediocrity, like genes, chemical exposure, television, and so on, but I think diet explains much. "You are what you eat" is an expression most of us are familiar with. It's not surprising to see people who eat low quality food turn out to be low quality people, or more accurately, people who never got the required nutrients to reach their full potential, even if there wasn't much potential in the first place.

[EnviroEngr]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ow excuse me while I take a break to push away some of the organisms that are encroaching on my space in this petri dish.

[arocoun]

If you read carefully, Mike, you'll see that I was careful not to talk like one who believes in the noble savage myth, which is that primitive societies are necessarily sustainable and harmonious. I was careful not to say that all hunter-gatherer or primitive groups are sustainable and harmonious (though a hell of a lot more of them are so than are industrial or agricultural societies). I simply said--for the sake of showing that a need for unsustainable society isn't absolutely intrinsic to humans--that there are some such people, which is true. There are even people from this very society who advocate sustainability and simplicity, which I think is a good sign that it's possible for humans to be responsible and smart.

I myself don't have much faith in my fellow human (and I have, in fact, displayed my dissappointment in, and even hatred for, humanity as a whole in the past), but I still believe that humans don't necessarily have to be brutish, destructive, imperialistic, or anything of that sort. In fact, it is my hope that humans with simple, sustainable, harmonious goals will be the ones most likely to live beyond the upcoming oil crash, and that such humans and societies will be predominant for at least a while into the future.

[Phil]

Are people getting dumber? Yes; or more precisely, the dumb people are increasing in number relative to the smart people.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Bell Curve contains a chapter on the dysgenic trend by which those of low IQ are having more offspring than those of high IQ. After summarizing the literature as (p. 341), "The professional consensus is that the United States has experienced dysgenic pressures throughout either most of the century (the optimists) or all of the century (the pessimists)," the discussion turns to data for the 90's. Current Population Survey data is used to show that the average number of children ever born to US women ages 35-44 in 1992 was 71% greater for high school dropouts than for college graduates. The new research reported using the NLSY shows that the average IQ of the mothers in the sample was less than 96. However, because many of the higher IQ women have not yet completed their childbearing, it is estimated that the overall IQ of American mothers was a little less than 98. This implies that a slow generation to generation decline in US IQ is to be expected.

...There is an additional factor that is often neglected. The high IQ have their children later than the low IQ (partially because most women defer childbearing until their education is completed, and high IQ women seek higher level of education). The data from the NLSY shows that women in the top 5% for IQ have their first child at an average age of 27.2 years, while those in the bottom 5% have their first child at an average age of 19.8 years (p. 352). The difference is less for the average over all births, but it appears that those in the bottom 5% will complete 5 generations for every four generations completed by those in the top 5%.

Race, Socioeconomic Variables, and Intelligence: A Review and Extension of The Bell Curve

[trespam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MikeB', '[')b]trespam:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o it seems inevitable that a planet such as ours will find a culture that sucks everything up until it--and the ecosystem with it--crashes against the limitations of the earth-side petri dish.

[trespam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Phil', 'A')re people getting dumber? Yes; or more precisely, the dumb people are increasing in number relative to the smart people.

[0mar]

I think there are simply more dumb people around. There are thousands of smart people everywhere, it's just that there are millions of dumb people.