[thuja]

Waves too...lots of waves- we're working hard on a prototype to get electricity from the Sea.

[Plantagenet]

Wave energy is way cool.

Oregon may also have huge geothermal resources in the central Cascades. There is geothermal development going on right now at Newberry Caldera in eastern Oregon.

Oregon has very large solar potential in the eastern deserts.

Wind.

Biofuels. Tree oil.

There is a little bit of natural gas and oil still be found in Oregon.

And there are always nukes.

[jupiters_release]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'W')e hit peak oil in 2006 or late in 2005. The world will have only 50% as much oil production in 30 years compared to today.

Is that enough to cause famine and die-off in Portland?

Can Portland replace 50% of the oil it uses with more solar, hydro, nuclear, geothermal, biofuel, bicycles, etc. and keep energy use at today's levels?

Can Portland powerdown and use half as much energy and not have famines?

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', '[') A town is only as sustainable as what the local farms can support

[jupiters_release]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', '[') A town is only as sustainable as what the local farms can support

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', '[') A town is only as sustainable as what the local farms can support

[thuja]

Yes Eastbay is right- the fear for me is not so much about imminent starvation as it is increasing overpopulation due to climate change/PO related disasters. It is likely that we will see an ever increasing influx of the tired, the hungry, the teeming masses. I think the Willammette Valley and environs could support Oregon's population of 4 milllion right now...but 6 million, 8, 10, 20? No...

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'Y')es Eastbay is right- the fear for me is not so much about imminent starvation as it is increasing overpopulation due to climate change/PO related disasters. It is likely that we will see an ever increasing influx of the tired, the hungry, the teeming masses..

[thuja]

No of course not- let them come- but I do see a point where its a lot like the rowboats fleeing the Titanic. Pick up too many people and your little boat sinks.

But is there any way to deny other American citizens access to the Northwest as they flee drought ravaged and arid barren landscapes that can't be propped up by fossil fuels? Is there any way to say no to people who are fleeing rising sea levels and hurricanes? I can't think of any reasonable, logical or legal thing that can be done.

So people will come. They have been coming in ever increasing numbers. And eventually we will be overwhelmed and small problems will become mighty ones.

This will not affect just Portland, but every habitable area in Oregon and in the NorthWest. The right to Fresh Water will become the rallying cry- How can you deny your fellow citizens?

[eastbay]

Yes. A statewide moratorium on net-gain housing construction (we all know what that is, right?) would be an excellent place to start. Maybe get Washington in on it too. That approach will leave population mostly unchanged. It would put some teeth into all these feel-good resolutions. That would greatly reduce the level of immigrants into the area without excluding anyone. Sure, prices may climb but it's better than greatly social intensified chaos.

A governor and legislature hip to PO would be required and here in Oregon that is a dream... at this point. Maybe when the gas lines and fuel rationing start attitudes will change.

[thuja]

Our main way of reducing population influx has been rapidly increasing home and land prices. My belief is that climate/PO related chaos will drastically increase demand for Northwest land/homes which will cause rents and home prices to escalate to a fever pitch.

As is happening now, the poor will be forced to the outer, less habitable edges, and it will be difficult for any but the upper middle class and rich to relocate here. This will lead to a Third World atmosphere in which the rich have access to food and remaining resources while the vast poor have difficulty meeting their basic needs. Thus crime, , riots, even revolution is possible.

I don't think this thing can be legislated. It will be the law of supply and demand.

[eastbay]

The number of housing units constructed in this area is heavily regulated requiring approval at the city council level while meeting quota's set by the regional authority.

The quota's can be adjusted as needed... and it is very much needed at this time that they are greatly reduced. Reduction will be mandatory in the years ahead anyhow so, again, Portland could reveal its real 'green' self to the rest of the US with this bold approach designed to mitigate the size and scope of the disaster.

Zero net gain is a simple concept. It means no residential construction can occur unless an equal number of aged and dilapidated housing is first destroyed. Replacement building could continue, but increasing density would cease. This policy combined with a strictly enforced urban growth limit will assure little increase in population as this calamity kicks in.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'O')ur main way of reducing population influx has been rapidly increasing home and land prices.

[eastbay]

Don't bother us with 3rd grade population stats. We know how many people live here.

[Plantagenet]

The Portland metropolitan area continued to experience the largest population increases. Washington County gained 34,858 people since 2000, followed by Multnomah County (25,464) and Clackamas County (17,859).

The largest city population increase occurred in the state’s largest city—Portland’s population reached 550,560 the year ending July 1, 2004, an increase of 21,439 people since the 2000 Census. Bend and Hillsboro ranked second and third in numbers of new residents, with respective gains of 13,181 and 9,754. All three cities had substantial numbers of new housing units. The population of Oregon's incorporated cities and towns totaled 2,434,922 on July 1, 2004, accounting for 68 percent of the state’s population.

[thuja]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'T')he number of housing units constructed in this area is heavily regulated requiring approval at the city council level while meeting quota's set by the regional authority.

The quota's can be adjusted as needed... and it is very much needed at this time that they are greatly reduced. Reduction will be mandatory in the years ahead anyhow so, again, Portland could reveal its real 'green' self to the rest of the US with this bold approach designed to mitigate the size and scope of the disaster.

Zero net gain is a simple concept. It means no residential construction can occur unless an equal number of aged and dilapidated housing is first destroyed. Replacement building could continue, but increasing density would cease. This policy combined with a strictly enforced urban growth limit will assure little increase in population as this calamity kicks in.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', ' ') I don't think no-growth is quite there yet.

[thuja]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', ' ') I don't think no-growth is quite there yet.

[Plantagenet]

In reality, Portland isn't an expensive place to live. Housing prices in Portland are near average for the U.S., while wages are almost 20% higher then the U.S. average.

No wonder Portland is experience such rapid population growth.

In 2005 US metro areas had a median household income of $57,500 and a median house price of $225,000. In Portland the median income is $67,900 and the median house price is $201,000.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', ' ') I don't think no-growth is quite there yet.