[Carlhole]

If you can think of a subject that makes people more uncomfortable than this one, post it.

http://www.africancrisis.co.za/Article.php?ID=18842&

I can think of things like the International Man-Boy Love Society (or whatever the hell it's called) but people just blow that off like nothing. It hardly causes any squirming at all.

Probably, when people read an article like the above, they make some mental calculation as to how they personally stack up against the prevailing culture IQ-wise. And, even if they don't consider themselves intellectually gifted in any particular way, the subject matter makes them feel very embarassed.

It also makes people feel like they are being forced to put themselves above others undeservedly- which is a throwback to earlier, cruder, tragically unjust times in our American history.

And I suspect that on some level, people agree with it. But it's so unnerving to have that thought-chord strummed, that they quickly suppress it. So, it's very politically incorrect. I think it's the most politically incorrect subject ever.

Anyway, James Watson of DNA-discovery fame is running around Britain promoting his new book, "Avoid Boring People" (which doesn't deal with the subject of Race and IQ at all), but he's somehow bringing this into his talks, or at least he's well-known for having strong views on the subject.

Of course, everyone thinks of Zimbabwe. Does anyone actually believe that the Zimbabweans will ever mature and stabilize enough to govern their country properly?

If the Vietnamese that I watched in SoCal had somehow emigrated to Zimbabwe instead of the US, and were permitted to pursue their own happiness and prosperity without threat of violence, that country's prosperity would now be soaring.

If there WERE a threat of violence to hypothetical Vietnamese there, I would bet that within just a couple of years, no other group would hold the reigns of power any longer in that country.

It's probably racist of me to admire the Vietnamese people like that.

[Jack]

Of course it's politically incorrect.

Why?

A) Partly because part of the White population feels deeply guilty and wants to make everyone pay a penalty, the better to expiate their perceived sin of being White.

B) Partly because the powers that be wish to pay off a subset of the population to avoid disruptive behavior. The cost/benefit of such a strategy is thought to be less than controlling or terminating the disruptions.

As peak oil hits, B may become impractical.

Perhaps the consequences will remedy A.

[Carlhole]

I guess you could argue that the Zimbabweans are ahead of the Peak Oil curve somewhat.

• They're eliminating excess population
  
• Reducing the influence of a debt-based currency on their economy
  
• They're moving back to a simpler social energy-utilization paradigm
  
• They are distancing themselves from eco-wasteful animal husbandry and moving to a low-calorie diet
  
• They have steadfastly refused to involve themselves with eco-destructive, predatory financial arms of the US such as the IMF and World Bank, etc. that would force them to prostitute their natural resources
  
• They are making themselves unattractive to the forces of globalization which would lock them into the nowhere future of modern industrialization.

So maybe the Zimbabweans are more brilliant than usually credited?

[jupiters_release]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'I')f you can think of a subject that makes people more uncomfortable than this one, post it.

http://www.africancrisis.co.za/Article.php?ID=18842&

I can think of things like the International Man-Boy Love Society (or whatever the hell it's called) but people just blow that off like nothing. It hardly causes any squirming at all.

Probably, when people read an article like the above, they make some mental calculation as to how they personally stack up against the prevailing culture IQ-wise. And, even if they don't consider themselves intellectually gifted in any particular way, the subject matter makes them feel very embarassed.

It also makes people feel like they are being forced to put themselves above others undeservedly- which is a throwback to earlier, cruder, tragically unjust times in our American history.

And I suspect that on some level, people agree with it. But it's so unnerving to have that thought-chord strummed, that they quickly suppress it. So, it's very politically incorrect. I think it's the most politically incorrect subject ever.

Anyway, James Watson of DNA-discovery fame is running around Britain promoting his new book, "Avoid Boring People" (which doesn't deal with the subject of Race and IQ at all), but he's somehow bringing this into his talks, or at least he's well-known for having strong views on the subject.

Of course, everyone thinks of Zimbabwe. Does anyone actually believe that the Zimbabweans will ever mature and stabilize enough to govern their country properly?

If the Vietnamese that I watched in SoCal had somehow emigrated to Zimbabwe instead of the US, and were permitted to pursue their own happiness and prosperity without threat of violence, that country's prosperity would now be soaring.

If there WERE a threat of violence to hypothetical Vietnamese there, I would bet that within just a couple of years, no other group would hold the reigns of power any longer in that country.

It's probably racist of me to admire the Vietnamese people like that.

[jupiters_release]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'I') guess you could argue that the Zimbabweans are ahead of the Peak Oil curve somewhat.

• They're eliminating excess population
  
• Reducing the influence of a debt-based currency on their economy
  
• They're moving back to a simpler social energy-utilization paradigm
  
• They are distancing themselves from eco-wasteful animal husbandry and moving to a low-calorie diet
  
• They have steadfastly refused to involve themselves with eco-destructive, predatory financial arms of the US such as the IMF and World Bank, etc. that would force them to prostitute their natural resources
  
• They are making themselves unattractive to the forces of globalization which would lock them into the nowhere future of modern industrialization.

So maybe the Zimbabweans are more brilliant than usually credited?

[Tanada]

Well your right it definately is a pollitically incorrect subject.

I think the biggest problem is people misaprehend what IQ is. Or rather what IQ variabillity means. Statistics, the easiest way to lie and sound intelligent, tell us that males tend to hit the outer bands of the IQ standard deviations while females tend to be grouped in the center.

IOW Women and Men average the same IQ but the males will have more geniuses and more imbeciles than the females. Everything is ballanced. I personally beleive that some breeds of humanity show the same phenomonom as total groups. That is to say while all humans have the same general average IQ some groups may lack the members who are at the extreams. This would neither a reason for pride or shame, if this is the cause it just is.

Africans from Nubia and South Africa developed iron age technology independently of Europe, so someone had to be doing a lot of thinking to work out ways and means. On the scale of human civilization there has not been enough time from the passing of the colonial era for us to judge how society will turn out in Africa or as far as that goes anywhere else.

[Denny]

I recall various times in Africa in which East Indians, even those born there of East Indian descent, have been harrassed and ultimately deported for their success! It seems they have been more picked on than the whites.

So, racism is not limited to whites. Strange, we do not hold black nations to the same standards we expect of white ones. And, isn't that racist in itself?

I think envy and jealousy does more harm to the originator than it does to the object of the envy.

[Gigashadow]

The topic of intelligence/race correlation is similar to that of religious belief, in that people have already decided in advance what they want the answer to be, and there is no convincing them otherwise.

I don't know whether what Watson says is true or not, but mass hysteria in the press has erupted, with people mainly focusing on ad hominem attacks, as if these automatically falsify his statements. It would be more interesting to analyse the facts to determine whether what he says is true.

[Daculling]

Tropical regions require boom/bust economics. Temperate require close cooperation economics... the latoisum here astounds me.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Wouldn't it be ironic if the "advanced people" all died and the Africans in the bush and back-country of the jungles managed to hang on. In another 50,000 years they could spread out across the globe again and next time there would be no fossil fuel traps to beguile us yeast-like humans.

As for Watson, he's a total jackass. "Human intelligence" is far more complex than he knows. Or me for that that matter. But I will state for a fact, he may decipher the structure of the DNA molecule but that doesn't mean that anyone should take him seriously. I'm not commenting on politically correct or incorrect topics. All I'm saying is that we don't know far more than we do.

[mekrob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')As for Watson, he's a total jackass.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', ' ')“all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours – whereas all the testing says not really”

Intelligence, as far as I know, is not linear. There is no bar graph that you can say "Oh, person A is smarter than person B". There are different types of intelligence and are very subjective.
farming, etc.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gigashadow', 'T')he topic of intelligence/race correlation is similar to that of religious belief, in that people have already decided in advance what they want the answer to be

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'w')hen he broke the PC "taboo" by spreaking about this subject his talks were cancelled and he was pilloried in the press.

[eastbay]

Yes, in many ways you may be correct PMS. And in some ways you may be wrong too. As with most things the final truth is somewhere in the middle.

I'm no expert on this, that's fur sure, but when it comes to math, science, language, and logic which are what most IQ tests asses, Mr. Watson's, the famous Nobel Prize winning scientist, is right. Different races score differently. That fact isn't even arguable.

Well, actually, on second thought I suppose it's arguable. One can argue just about anything if they are driven to do so.

Darn it, I really don't like agreeing with plantagenet on anything. (joke)

[Carlhole]

I can't think of a single other subject which arouses such discomfort in people. I was wondering if someone else would think of something more squirmish. Nope!

[jasonraymondson]

Well, I have one of the highest IQ's on peakoil.com and probably higher than what most of the so-called experts possess.
But, I acknowlege I am not really an expert in anything. I am a jack of all trades and a master of none. Probably because I don't frankly care enough about anyone subject to give a rats ass to become an expert. Unless your talking about tv trivia.


But, I am in college and I have a roommate from nigeria and I guarantee you this guy makes everyone on here look like they are mentally retarded.

Also as a high iq guy I must point out, anyone who put any faith in IQ is the villiage idiot. Please see my other threads for details.

[lys3rg0]

A buddy of mine is discussing the same article on another forum, so i'll just repost his words here, because i agree with his point of view (but mainly because i can't be bothered to think for myself ). Plus, he's just lurking on this board, maybe this will get him out of hiding.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') saw James Watson's talk at TED and i was pretty impressed. Especially the final part, where he explains what he's working on now, is really telling. He is studying the effect of certain genes on brain development and investigating possible genetic reasons for why certain mental illnesses seem to be present in higher percentage among certain segments of the population, which seems to point to a link between certain genes and predisposition to conditions such as autism, schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.

I believe James Watson should have the right to express his opinion on the matter, even if it's controversial, and even if he's not the highest authority in the field, his work on issues that are closely related to the problem should determine us to think that his ideas should be considered. If that link between genes and intelligence actually exists or not, i don't see why it's made into a political issue. It is a certainty that the link is either there or it is not. Should we not study the matter and find out? If not, why not?

By the way, Watson apologised:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')To all those who have drawn the inference from my words that Africa, as a continent, is somehow genetically inferior, I can only apologize unreservedly. That is not what I meant. More importantly from my point of view, there is no scientific basis for such a belief."