[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'H')ow does competing for decreasing resources with your fellow species lead to a collective altruism toward cooperation and sustainability?

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', ' ')Even sex drive can be converted to pure energy and do something more useful (now, with overpopulation) with it than screwing around.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'A')rtists, musics, poets, and other creatives does this (more or less) unconsciously,

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('turmoil', '
')Profit. Profit seeking is why we are here, and profit seeking will be the answer.

[Revi]

Zensui, you Ticos make so much sense. I have to say that the collective wake up for mankind is happening in Costa Rica first, and won't get here for a while.

I met a bunch of ecology-minded Ticos on Volcan Poas in 1983 when I lived in Alajuela. Maybe the wake up started there, and just hasn't reached the rest of the world yet.

I think that the wake up is starting, but it won't get everywhere for a long time. It certainly hasn't gotten to the White House yet.

Those of us who are aware of the problem and haven't succumbed to the doomer mentality could start the wake up as well.

It starts here. Now.

[turmoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'T')he question was not for me, but still: what about ecological cost? Explain ecology in a way that is dead-clear for an economist that the ecological cost was never relevant for calculating the total cost. It's profitable for our species to stop destroying nature; if we keep destroying nature and become extinct there won't be any kind of profit anymore.

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('turmoil', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'T')he question was not for me, but still: what about ecological cost? Explain ecology in a way that is dead-clear for an economist that the ecological cost was never relevant for calculating the total cost. It's profitable for our species to stop destroying nature; if we keep destroying nature and become extinct there won't be any kind of profit anymore.

[careinke]

turmoil wrote:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ow lets address voluntary conservation. Religion is the key. Take Ramadan, the Muslim month-long fast (going on now). Do you think this was created for spiritual purposes or for economic reasons? If we were to add up all the food and energy conserved during Ramadan you could probably feed Africa for the month.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('turmoil', 'A')s I see it, the problem is shifting from the industrial age to the sustainable age. It basically requires all business to go out of business, and figure out how to make a profit based on a much higher value of resources. Once resources have a higher value, the businesses can function at a much more efficient level and provide sustainable products that make better use of valuable resources.

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('turmoil', 'A')s I see it, the problem is shifting from the industrial age to the sustainable age. It basically requires all business to go out of business, and figure out how to make a profit based on a much higher value of resources. Once resources have a higher value, the businesses can function at a much more efficient level and provide sustainable products that make better use of valuable resources.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'm')aybe you're right that there's no hope, maybe not.

But I have decided to die trying to make that hope a reality.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'Z')ensui, you Ticos make so much sense. I have to say that the collective wake up for mankind is happening in Costa Rica first, and won't get here for a while.

I met a bunch of ecology-minded Ticos on Volcan Poas in 1983 when I lived in Alajuela. Maybe the wake up started there, and just hasn't reached the rest of the world yet.

I think that the wake up is starting, but it won't get everywhere for a long time. It certainly hasn't gotten to the White House yet.

Those of us who are aware of the problem and haven't succumbed to the doomer mentality could start the wake up as well.

It starts here. Now.

[Nicholai]

People are REACTIONARY! We can respond to an invasion by Germany, we can respond to a need for antibacterial products, we can respond to anything if it causes us immediate harm.

Carbon stays in the atmosphere for 100 years and therefore, once we find ourselves in deep trouble, we won't have time to turn the tide. Same with peak oil. If we finally understand our dilemma, the peak will be long gone and keeping up with the production of alternative fuels in the hope of matching the rate of oil depletion will be impossible. Our reactionary nature is what eventually causes the collapse of all societies. People Are Reactionary.

[Blacksmith]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nicholai', 'P')eople are REACTIONARY! We can respond to an invasion by Germany, we can respond to a need for antibacterial products, we can respond to anything if it causes us immediate harm.

Carbon stays in the atmosphere for 100 years and therefore, once we find ourselves in deep trouble, we won't have time to turn the tide. Same with peak oil. If we finally understand our dilemma, the peak will be long gone and keeping up with the production of alternative fuels in the hope of matching the rate of oil depletion will be impossible. Our reactionary nature is what eventually causes the collapse of all societies. People Are Reactionary.

[turmoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'R')amadan saves neither energy nor food, just the opposite.

[turmoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'Y')ou have constructed in your mind a very neat and tidy scenario of what needs to be done.