[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', '
')Having toppled one 'wise man' we should not immediately set another one up in his place. When that one is proved wrong, and after that the next, where then would we look?

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'J')PL, Having toppled who? Monte Queste? Do you know something we don't? I thought he just stepped out momentarily due to his outbreak of shingles, or vinyl siding, or whatever it was.

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', '
')Having toppled one 'wise man' we should not immediately set another one up in his place. When that one is proved wrong, and after that the next, where then would we look?

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'J')PL- Die-off is not a denialist term- its simply a loaded term. Instead we should talk about population contraction. The Earth will only to be able to carry a fraction of the humans now on the planet in a post-petroleum/GW world.

The developed world is already primed for population contraction and it is already happening in much of Eastern Europe/ex-Soviet Union. Western Europe will be contracting in the next decade. Lowered life expectancies due to the consequences of Post-Peak will likely accelerate this trend but it won't be apocalyptic- just a natural contraction over a period of 50-100 years.

Its the Developing World that faces the largest challenges in not experiencing massive Die-Offs. How to combat that? Incentivized population control, birth control, large block grants to support local infrastructure, ag, conservation, etc...essentially weaning from 20th century industrialized s of living. Will it work in time? Very doubtful...but absolutely worth a try...

[HEADER_RACK]

Any ideas to help alleviate the coming die-off are all just theoretical discourse and any time put into them is just a mind exercise at most.
Nothing will be done on a global level. This is a reality that one must face. Man kind does not work well with it's own self. Will the Muslims lend a hand to help the Jews? Will the white supremacist lend a hand to help the black man? Will the Hutu tribe lend aid and support to the Tutsi tribe? What about Serbia and Kosovo think they will love thy neighbor enough to share resources? Expect them to be "humanitarian" to each other. I think not.
Man kind knows one thing better than all and that is WAR. We have been waging war on this planet since civilization began and more than likely before even that was established. We have not evolved enough as a whole to learn to work together for the common good for all.
There is to much deversity,to many social and religious cultures to much difference for us to come together. Even in this forum you can see the prejudices. Let's blame the Americans because they use more oil than anyone else. Let's blame and hate the soccer mom's because they drive all over in SUVs. Let's blame and hate fat people because they eat more than normal people.Blame the meat eatters because it takes so much land to grow food for the beef. Blame it on consumers because they want more of the modern conveniences this world has to offer at the momment.Everyone wants to point a finger and blame someone else for the predicament everyone is in but you want these same people to work side by side to save as many people as we can? You couldn't get everyone on this fourm that believes in Peak Oil to come together and work hand in hand for a single goal much less the entire planet.
A die-off will happen and approximitly 2/3 of the worlds population will be no more. To deny this is to ignore logic. To think man will come together to offset this is to ignore history. The best thing one can do is prepare and try not to be in that 2/3 group.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HEADER_RACK', 'A')ny ideas to help alleviate the coming die-off are all just theoretical discourse and any time put into them is just a mind exercise at most.
Nothing will be done on a global level. This is a reality that one must face. Man kind does not work well with it's own self. Will the Muslims lend a hand to help the Jews? Will the white supremacist lend a hand to help the black man? Will the Hutu tribe lend aid and support to the Tutsi tribe? What about Serbia and Kosovo think they will love thy neighbor enough to share resources? Expect them to be "humanitarian" to each other. I think not.
Man kind knows one thing better than all and that is WAR. We have been waging war on this planet since civilization began and more than likely before even that was established. We have not evolved enough as a whole to learn to work together for the common good for all.
There is to much deversity,to many social and religious cultures to much difference for us to come together. Even in this forum you can see the prejudices. Let's blame the Americans because they use more oil than anyone else. Let's blame and hate the soccer mom's because they drive all over in SUVs. Let's blame and hate fat people because they eat more than normal people.Blame the meat eatters because it takes so much land to grow food for the beef. Blame it on consumers because they want more of the modern conveniences this world has to offer at the momment.Everyone wants to point a finger and blame someone else for the predicament everyone is in but you want these same people to work side by side to save as many people as we can? You couldn't get everyone on this fourm that believes in Peak Oil to come together and work hand in hand for a single goal much less the entire planet.
A die-off will happen and approximitly 2/3 of the worlds population will be no more. To deny this is to ignore logic. To think man will come together to offset this is to ignore history. The best thing one can do is prepare and try not to be in that 2/3 group.

[HEADER_RACK]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')o, to deny die off is having the humility to accept that you can't know for certain what is going to happen, regardless of how things appear at the moment.

[WildRose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HEADER_RACK', '
') There is to much deversity,to many social and religious cultures to much difference for us to come together. Even in this forum you can see the prejudices. Let's blame the Americans because they use more oil than anyone else. Let's blame and hate the soccer mom's because they drive all over in SUVs. Let's blame and hate fat people because they eat more than normal people.Blame the meat eatters because it takes so much land to grow food for the beef. Blame it on consumers because they want more of the modern conveniences this world has to offer at the momment.Everyone wants to point a finger and blame someone else for the predicament everyone is in but you want these same people to work side by side to save as many people as we can? You couldn't get everyone on this fourm that believes in Peak Oil to come together and work hand in hand for a single goal much less the entire planet.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') guess I'm a little confused about what the topic is in this thread.

[HEADER_RACK]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', 'W')hat an excellent paragraph, HEADER_RACK. I'd nominate it for a quote except that it's a bit too long for that.

[threadbear]

Header--I'm with you on the point that people are becoming more dense. Double entendre intended.

Do you realize how well and truly screwed people are going to be financially in the U.S, Britain, Spain? And it's partly because they were willfully ignorant and chose to live in a dream rather than the dreary real world. Within about a year, there's going to be utter financial chaos. People will lose their homes, cars, and other big ticket items. They will say goodbye forever to their mcMansions, suv's, and join the great horde in the forced march to poverty. If they can afford it, they can drive a moped into third world conditions.

And sadly, this is the best case scenario, for the planet, and all concerned. Oil depletion will not likely be as critical an issue, as people just won't be driving as much.

[Nicholai]

Good.

Once we no longer have mass media and instant global communication, I wonder what kind of accent will develop in my community. I'm excited.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('virgincrude', ' ')My 'little country' (Spain) has more protected wild environment than any other 'little country' in Europe. (We're fighting to reintroduce wild lynx, bears and wolves- for what it matters,)

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') guess I'm a little confused about what the topic is in this thread.

[NWMossBack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', 'e')dit: I took out some stuff that people didn't deserve (sorry...)

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('virgincrude', ' ')My 'little country' (Spain) has more protected wild environment than any other 'little country' in Europe. (We're fighting to reintroduce wild lynx, bears and wolves- for what it matters,)

[Nicholai]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jf-qrA4TxfI

=

Montequests entrance music

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')Energy Unlimited:
I'll go with you one on one, when it comes to criticizing the U.S, and I'll go you one better dissing Canada, my own country, when it's deserved. But to characterize your little piece of scorched earth Hell, Spain, as a kind of eco-paradise?

[threadbear]

Energy Unlimited, Yep, Parts of Eastern Europe, may turn out to be the place to be, in terms of sustainability. Now if you guys could just get those bears out of the tutus and rollerskates!

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NWMossBack', '
')So based on the real purpose, which is.....um.........something about chewing gum, & die-off, & Vietnam, & Iraq, & frontier mentality, and........um........other stuff, and what does Monte have to say about all this, the thread title should be changed to.......um............