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Either there are a lot of Islamic peeping toms watching homosexuals and adulterers in these countries and testifying against them in court, or the judicial standard for executing people for sex crimes is different then you claim. Evil or Very Mad
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Re: Insanejad: Iran Has Executed All It's Homosexuals
by mekrob » Mon 24 Sep 2007, 22:53:49
You asked about executions in accordance with Shar'ia. Shar'ia requires 4 upstanding citizens to testify against the defendants. How often is that going to happen?
Also, the punishment is the same as adultery. Thus, executions only happen for married men. Married women have life in prison and unmarried men and women "simply" receive lashes, but Iran has executed teenagers, who, I'm just guessing, aren't married. They are also required to be given the option to repent and be granted their freedom from the punishment.
Under Shar'ia, like you asked, pretty much the only way that you can be executed is if the police ask everyone in town to line up and ask you if you are gay and then ask you to step this way to the gallows, if you choose not to be a martyr and repent.
I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
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Re: Insanejad: Iran Has Executed All It's Homosexuals
by Plantagenet » Tue 25 Sep 2007, 00:02:53
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', ' ')Under Shar'ia, like you asked, pretty much the only way that you can be executed is if the police ask everyone in town to line up and ask you if you are gay and then ask you to step this way to the gallows, if you choose not to be a martyr and repent.
Iran claims to be under Sharia law, and their standard for executions for "immoral" sex acts clearly differs from what you say.
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Re: Insanejad: Iran Has Executed All It's Homosexuals
by Plantagenet » Tue 25 Sep 2007, 00:05:58
...In the northeastern city of Mashhad, Iran, two teenagers, Ayaz Marhoni and Mahmoud Asgari, were put to death for a crime involving homosexual intercourse. Asgari, at least, was underage at the time of the offense. Before the execution Marhoni and Asgari were detained for approximately fourteen months and received 228 lashes each for drinking, disturbing the peace and theft. Despite appeals from the defendants' lawyers and protests by Iranian human rights activists such as Nobel laureate Shirin Ebadi, the Iranian Supreme Court upheld the verdict and sentence, which was carried out by public hanging.
The claim that executions of people for immorality aren't carried out as part of the mainstream judicial system are also clearly untrue.
The claim that executions of people for immorality aren't carried out as part of the mainstream judicial system are also clearly untrue.
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Re: Insanejad: Iran Has Executed All It's Homosexuals
by Plantagenet » Tue 25 Sep 2007, 00:11:25
From the International Herald Tribune:
TEHRAN: The Iranian government confirmed Tuesday that a man was executed by stoning last week for committing adultery, and said that 20 more men would be executed in the coming days on morality violations.
A judiciary spokesman, Alireza Jamshidi, told reporters on Tuesday that a death sentence by stoning had been carried out last week near the city of Takestan, west of Tehran, despite an order by the chief of the judiciary, Ayatollah Mahmoud Shahroudi, not to permit such executions.
"The verdict was final, and so it was carried out for the man but not for the woman," the ISNA news agency quoted Jamshidi as saying.
He said the 20 additional executions were for such things as "rape, insulting religious sanctities and laws, and homosexuality." Most executions in Iran are hangings, often in public and at the scenes of the alleged crimes.
The police arrested about 1,000 people in May during a so-called morality crackdown. Jamshidi said 15 more men were being tried on similar charges and could receive death sentences . . .
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Morality crackdown?? How moral is it to kill people for having out-of-wedlock sex?
TEHRAN: The Iranian government confirmed Tuesday that a man was executed by stoning last week for committing adultery, and said that 20 more men would be executed in the coming days on morality violations.
A judiciary spokesman, Alireza Jamshidi, told reporters on Tuesday that a death sentence by stoning had been carried out last week near the city of Takestan, west of Tehran, despite an order by the chief of the judiciary, Ayatollah Mahmoud Shahroudi, not to permit such executions.
"The verdict was final, and so it was carried out for the man but not for the woman," the ISNA news agency quoted Jamshidi as saying.
He said the 20 additional executions were for such things as "rape, insulting religious sanctities and laws, and homosexuality." Most executions in Iran are hangings, often in public and at the scenes of the alleged crimes.
The police arrested about 1,000 people in May during a so-called morality crackdown. Jamshidi said 15 more men were being tried on similar charges and could receive death sentences . . .
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Morality crackdown?? How moral is it to kill people for having out-of-wedlock sex?
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Re: Insanejad: Iran Has Executed All It's Homosexuals
by Eli » Tue 25 Sep 2007, 00:53:24
Man what crap, what a pathetic argument of equivalence.
People always dragging Fred Phelps out like he was Billy fucking Graham and a revered Christian leader. Fred Phelps is a nut job.
Meanwhile you have the nations of Saudi Arabia and Iran putting homosexuals to death by public hanging or chopping their heads off in the case of KSA. And if you are gay in Afghanistan that is a bolderring.
See the difference there, probably not.
People always dragging Fred Phelps out like he was Billy fucking Graham and a revered Christian leader. Fred Phelps is a nut job.
Meanwhile you have the nations of Saudi Arabia and Iran putting homosexuals to death by public hanging or chopping their heads off in the case of KSA. And if you are gay in Afghanistan that is a bolderring.
See the difference there, probably not.
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Re: Insanejad: Iran Has Executed All It's Homosexuals
by EnergyUnlimited » Tue 25 Sep 2007, 03:41:15
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'I')f you're asking seriously: the punishment can only be administered with either a non-coerced confession (which would never happen knowing the penalty) or 4 witnesses to the act, which likely won't ever happen.
Does it have to be intercourse, or would kissing fall under this law? Do people sometimes conspire and falsely testify they witnessed such an act to get at someone?
I'm asking seriously, by the way, out of curiosity.
In Iran you can get contract married for 2 weeks (or 1 hour if more desirable), then have an intercourse (and subsequent divorce...) and everything will be fine.
Their mullahs are essentially acting as pimps by endorsing that practice.
It is not unknown that certain Iranian women are getting married and divorced several times a day.
One of my neighbors is working for military contractors and travels much to various African countries where Muslim communities are present.
So for example in Kongo Republic (Chad) local Muslim communities are permitting their women (presumably out of necessity...) to carry on prostitution as long as they restrict themselves to provide oral sex only.
There is always a way around any law (even Sharia one)...unless you are caught homosexual or attempt to make love with your camel.
If so then bad luck...
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mekrob', '.')..4 witnesses to the act, which likely won't ever happen.
Any witness must be:
1. Muslim
2. Male
So betrayed wife, who caught her husband in act will not qualify as a witness but a husband together with his father and two brothers certainly will.
Legal procedure can be simple and inexpensive and subsequent justice swift...
My overall observations regarding Sharia Law are that this system is inexpensive to implement and simple to run.
Long term imprisonment in particular is usually avoided, trivial crimes are penalized by cheap to administer corporal punishment, sometimes efficient measures preventing repeating a crime are taken (chopping off thieves hands is good example) and severe cases, where there is not much prospect of improvement and/or severe damage was already done are dealt with by death penalty.
The most contentious part (from western perspective at least) are sex crimes and issues related to women rights. In any case it is worth to remember that any society has sovereign right to establish their own code of penal practice etc, so westerners should tolerate systems with different sets of values than they believe are right.
In any case American married woman who committed adultery with a local during her holiday in Tunisia is not going to be stoned to death.
At the very worst she will receive few lashes and after several weeks of detention she will be deported back to US.
Alternatively West may try to negotiate with Muslim world, that any thief, rapist, murderer, homosexual or a whore may be "exported" from Muslim country of origin into West, where asylum seeker status will be granted, psychological care provided and luxury house and car given in attempt to direct these poor souls into right way of life.
If so, then I bet that many Westerners will voluntarily elect to migrate to Iran and convert into Islam...
It is very likely that in post peak economically collapsed West laws comparable to Sharia will have to be reintroduced, albeit particular activities (say homosexuality) will not necessarily become crimes again and required standards of prove may be somewhat different.
In any case it is quite possible that Jack may be hanged if caught stealing a sheep from Jerry and incident is proven up to expected standard.
Modern civilization's values are likely to evaporate in energy declining world.
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