Never underestimate the power of politics underpinning science to steer opinion and theory. The current morass in the Middle East can be seen as a purely political problem, or a purely geologically driven depletion emergency problem. Both models fit. I have no set beliefs about this as I know how science works and how it can fail, as it is a human endeavor.
Here at Peak Oil forums we should be open to any new information that comes along, no matter how it may undermine our world view or our ideas rooted in conventional scientific beliefs.
PeakOil is You
THE F.William Engdahl Thread (merged)
Re: Confessions of an “ex” Peak Oil Believer - Engdahl
by threadbear » Tue 18 Sep 2007, 12:40:22
-
threadbear - Expert
- Posts: 7577
- Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00
Re: Confessions of an “ex” Peak Oil Believer - Engdahl
by threadbear » Tue 18 Sep 2007, 12:50:32
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'W')anna know why conspiracies rarely work?
Because people cheat. Somebody realizes the potential benefit of screwing his co-conspirators & the grand conspiracy falls apart.
Do some work as planned? Probably.
But it strains credibility to the limit to suggest the kind of sweeping multi-generational conspiracy stuff Engdahl spews.
Abiotic Oil is no different.
Because people cheat. Somebody realizes the potential benefit of screwing his co-conspirators & the grand conspiracy falls apart.
Do some work as planned? Probably.
But it strains credibility to the limit to suggest the kind of sweeping multi-generational conspiracy stuff Engdahl spews.
Abiotic Oil is no different.
Really Aaron? Maybe it's concise and well reasoned argument that exposes and then gently taps that flaw in the dominant paradigm, from the outside and shatters it like a diamond.
Last edited by threadbear on Tue 18 Sep 2007, 13:53:32, edited 1 time in total.
-
threadbear - Expert
- Posts: 7577
- Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00
Re: Confessions of an “ex” Peak Oil Believer - Engdahl
by jbeckton » Tue 18 Sep 2007, 13:03:30
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('canis_lupus', 'C')arlhole - very well written, very well articulated
Aaron - very well written, very well articulated. Sometimes I like to tell some who post here to "pull my finger."
I follow along best as I can with the science but after awhile I get distracted (INTJ personality and all) but here's what I know: the price of oil has gone up roughly a ten bucks a year for the last six years.
Tell me about abiotic oil.
Tell me about biofuels.
Tell me about solar, nukes, wave, wind.
Tell me about conservation.
Argue the minutiae with each other ad nauseum.
But oil has gone up ten bucks a year for the last six years.
That's a hell of a trend. In the next three to five years it will be unaffordable to many.
That's Peak Oil. How can anyone deny that?
Aaron - very well written, very well articulated. Sometimes I like to tell some who post here to "pull my finger."
I follow along best as I can with the science but after awhile I get distracted (INTJ personality and all) but here's what I know: the price of oil has gone up roughly a ten bucks a year for the last six years.
Tell me about abiotic oil.
Tell me about biofuels.
Tell me about solar, nukes, wave, wind.
Tell me about conservation.
Argue the minutiae with each other ad nauseum.
But oil has gone up ten bucks a year for the last six years.
That's a hell of a trend. In the next three to five years it will be unaffordable to many.
That's Peak Oil. How can anyone deny that?
All I hear is bla bla bla, bal bla bla.
The more inteligent readers ask why, the less inteligent just repeat what they have heard.
Where do you fall?
Do you have anything insightful to add? Why waste both of our time with that post?
-
jbeckton - Expert
- Posts: 2082
- Joined: Fri 05 Jan 2007, 04:00:00
Re: Confessions of an “ex” Peak Oil Believer - Engdahl
by jbeckton » Tue 18 Sep 2007, 14:09:18
I have been looking around and have seen some interesting articles:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')stronomers have been able to find that hydrocarbons, as oil, gas and coal are called, occur on many other planetary bodies. They are a common substance in the universe. You find it in the kind of gas clouds that made systems like our solar system. You find large quantities of hydrocarbons in them. Is it reasonable to think that our little Earth, one of the planets, contains oil and gas for reasons that are all its own and that these other bodies have it because it was built into them when they were born? That question makes a lot of sense. After all, they didn’t have dinosaurs and ferns on Jupiter to produce oil and gas.
...
Human skull fossils have been found in anthracite coal in Pennsylvania. The official theory of the development of coal will not accept that reality, since human beings were not around when anthracite coal was formed. Coal was formed millions of years ago. However, you cannot mistake the fact that these are human fossils.
...
"The coal we dig is hard, brittle stuff. It was once a liquid, because we find embedded in the middle of a six-foot seam of coal such things as a delicate wing of some animal or a leaf of a plant. They are undestroyed, absolutely preserved; with every cell in that fossil filled with exactly the same coal as all the coal on the outside. A hard, brittle coal is not going to get into each cell of a delicate leaf without destroying it. So obviously that stuff was a thin liquid at one time which gradually hardened."
...
Gold claims that the only thing we find now on the Earth that would do that is petroleum, which gradually becomes stiffer and harder. That is the only logical explanation for the origin of coal. So the fact that coal contains fossils does not prove that it is a fossil fuel; it proves exactly the opposite. Those fossils found in coal prove that coal is not made from those fossils. Where then does the carbon base come from that produces all of this?
http://www.jcrows.com/hydrocarbons.html
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')stronomers have been able to find that hydrocarbons, as oil, gas and coal are called, occur on many other planetary bodies. They are a common substance in the universe. You find it in the kind of gas clouds that made systems like our solar system. You find large quantities of hydrocarbons in them. Is it reasonable to think that our little Earth, one of the planets, contains oil and gas for reasons that are all its own and that these other bodies have it because it was built into them when they were born? That question makes a lot of sense. After all, they didn’t have dinosaurs and ferns on Jupiter to produce oil and gas.
...
Human skull fossils have been found in anthracite coal in Pennsylvania. The official theory of the development of coal will not accept that reality, since human beings were not around when anthracite coal was formed. Coal was formed millions of years ago. However, you cannot mistake the fact that these are human fossils.
...
"The coal we dig is hard, brittle stuff. It was once a liquid, because we find embedded in the middle of a six-foot seam of coal such things as a delicate wing of some animal or a leaf of a plant. They are undestroyed, absolutely preserved; with every cell in that fossil filled with exactly the same coal as all the coal on the outside. A hard, brittle coal is not going to get into each cell of a delicate leaf without destroying it. So obviously that stuff was a thin liquid at one time which gradually hardened."
...
Gold claims that the only thing we find now on the Earth that would do that is petroleum, which gradually becomes stiffer and harder. That is the only logical explanation for the origin of coal. So the fact that coal contains fossils does not prove that it is a fossil fuel; it proves exactly the opposite. Those fossils found in coal prove that coal is not made from those fossils. Where then does the carbon base come from that produces all of this?
http://www.jcrows.com/hydrocarbons.html
-
jbeckton - Expert
- Posts: 2082
- Joined: Fri 05 Jan 2007, 04:00:00
Re: Confessions of an “ex” Peak Oil Believer - Engdahl
by AlCzervik » Tue 18 Sep 2007, 16:55:04
Jesus, how many times do we have to go through this?
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... _oil.shtml
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... _pt1.shtml
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... _pt2.shtml
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... _pt3.shtml
http://www.energybulletin.net/2423.html
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... _oil.shtml
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... _pt1.shtml
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... _pt2.shtml
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... _pt3.shtml
http://www.energybulletin.net/2423.html
- AlCzervik
- Lignite
- Posts: 374
- Joined: Wed 14 Jul 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: The Motor City
Re: Confessions of an “ex” Peak Oil Believer - Engdahl
by Concerned » Tue 18 Sep 2007, 18:34:24
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', '
')Because if oil had been constantly produced deep in the earth, we would be literally swimming in the stuff. Remember, we have only used the stuff for some 150 years, and the world is some 5 billion years old. Oil might be of abiotic orgin, I dont know, but the rate of formation must be very, very slow in that case. Much slower than our consumption.
Nah, Aaron is far to nice to you.
')Because if oil had been constantly produced deep in the earth, we would be literally swimming in the stuff. Remember, we have only used the stuff for some 150 years, and the world is some 5 billion years old. Oil might be of abiotic orgin, I dont know, but the rate of formation must be very, very slow in that case. Much slower than our consumption.
Nah, Aaron is far to nice to you.
Let me help you catch up to the conversation.
I do not think anyone (certainly not me) is arguing that the earth is producing oil as fast as we are using it, only that if the earth is indeed producing it, we might not be looking in the right places, or cannot look in the right places.
So all the Chevrons and Texacos are looking in the wrong places? I guess they would rather drill a dry well than a nice big gusher of renewable oil.
Where should the USA, Mexico, Norway, UK, Australia, Kuwait, Indonesia and all the other oil producers dip their straws? I mean oil just hit $82 per barrel you would think someone would be interested in extracting some of this stuff.
All the history of oil depletion including US lower 48 and current market behavior indicate a finite supply of oil in our life times. Certainly on an extended geological scale perhaps millions or hundreds of millions of years oil may be renewable, whatever the real source might be.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box."
-Italian Proverb
-Italian Proverb
-
Concerned - Heavy Crude
- Posts: 1571
- Joined: Thu 23 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
