[steam_cannon]

By the way, since we are talking about our out of body experiences here... My opinion is not simply based on scientific studies but also though my own experience. I've had a number of out of body experiences: After a fall, after nearly drowning, on another occasion after holding my breath too long, and I'm pretty good at achieving an out of body state of mind though meditation. Though I'm far more interested in building things then meditating all the time...

Meditation is interesting and there are several ways it can affect the brain. Often the meditator creates a state where they short change the brain of oxygen. And more advanced meditators can shut down sections of the brain which encourages feelings of religious experience. The meditation rout is interesting because it is generally a slower event then though injury or suffocation.

For example though the slow meditation method you can see your perception of area change, so objects look the same but feel larger and you may then begin to feel like your perception of the world is inverting. This is because your visual perceptions are being cross mapped onto your sensory perceptions... However, like sex and everything else you perceive, it's all in your head. The world is not warping around you and you are not really floating.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')

Place a special headset over your eyes; it will display the images from the left camera to your left eye and the right camera to your right eye. Then enlist a friend to simultaneously stroke your chest and perform a similar motion just below the cameras' fields of view. Within a minute, you will suddenly be overcome by the strange sensation that you are sitting where the cameras are rather than in your own body.

For a quicker, less powerful jaunt outside your bodily confines, try the double-mirror trick: Position two mirrors facing each other and then lean toward one so that two thirds of your face is reflected in it. Scratch your cheek and stare deep into the hall of mirrors you have created, past your original reflection, past the image of your back, and settle on the third reflection—your own face but slightly obscured. Within seconds, you won't recognize that reflection as you...

http://richarddawkins.net/article,1603,n,n

[threadbear]

Steam Cannon, You blew off my response. It's well documented that remote viewing occurs during NDE's. If this can be verified independantly, it's almost a case closed. It can be concluded that, at the very least, you don't have to maintain a physical connection with your body to maintain consciousness.

[Schneider]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('greenworm', 'H')ave you ever had a dream where you could fly? If so, please attempt to describe the actual method which allowed you to fly.

[Byron100]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schneider', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('greenworm', 'H')ave you ever had a dream where you could fly? If so, please attempt to describe the actual method which allowed you to fly.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'S')team Cannon, You blew off my response. It's well documented that remote viewing occurs during NDE's. If this can be verified independently, it's almost a case closed. It can be concluded that, at the very least, you don't have to maintain a physical connection with your body to maintain consciousness.

[Byron100]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', ']')And the deeper question is, if it turns out that your proof of immortality isn't real, can you mentally handle that? Understandably, the answer to that for most people is no. People rarely question religious beliefs about immortality, nobody wants to die. So I guess the first question has to be, is that something you're able to do? Can you live with the idea of real permanent death hanging over you?

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Byron100', 'I')f everyone on Earth turned atheist tomorrow, we'd prolly be extinct within a year, as most humans *need* to have the beliefs of "extra-consciousness" to carry out life as we currently live it.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', 'S')o far I directed you to a video dealing specifically with the type of fraudulent studies you are quoting. Honestly think about it, do you really think I'm blowing you off? I want santa clause to be real just as much as the next guy, but the studies mentioned so far are not compelling.

[Byron100]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', 'Y')ou brought up some interesting questions.

"If everyone on Earth turned atheist tomorrow..."

In my experience that expresses a very American attitude. For example in Ukraine, almost everyone I knew were atheists and believed they would be dead as a rock when they die. And they are great generous fun people. In Ukraine you can walk down the street and drink a beer. Shocking I know but there is no Christian to tell you beer molecules are offending god. They have one life and they expect to live it. Also on a larger scale, socialism is greatly influenced by the realities of atheism. If there is only one life, you live and die for your family, for your culture, for your society. Atheists generally think of their families and culture. Where as someone who believes life and death is a game, are more likely to think of themselves first.

And who is the soul for, god or you? The idea of a soul provides the individual with an excuse so they can accumulate wealth of experience and knowledge and keep it for themselves. Most religions boil down to a reason to accumulate things, (ideas, self, and wealth). Or being rewarded for acting against humanity, killing people for "gods leaders", you'll get 72 virgins and all that... It's all about selfishness.

And in America, if you listen to any televangelist what do they say? Christians should accumulate wealth, it's their god given right... That sounds like selfish accumulation is what's important in that message and not god. I mean, that's the way it looks, religions tend to foster self preservation (saving their mind in a soul) and accumulation of wealth. And I don't know that makes humans better people, I think it makes them selfish. As an atheist, I have no reason to hold back generosity to my fellow man and future generations are important to me. All we've got is each other and that's the attitude held by most atheists.

And if you need to think of it with religious terms, when there is no god, humanity becomes your god and people become your soul. So being sane doesn't drive people insane. You wonder what would you live for? Maybe beer, or your wife and kids, your country, collecting stamps, seeing the world, your friends, sex... There are plenty of good things to live for even if the game you're playing doesn't have any save points.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '[')b]The Journal for Scientific Exploration is a peer reviewed journal...

[threadbear]

Steam Cannon--Of course JSE is going to attract controversy. And your point is?

[threadbear]

* However the following contrasting input from a psychiatrist corresponding with NDE researcher Kevin Williams is highly pertinent to this point (taken from this article at his superb NDE investigation website):
"I read with interest Gerald Woerlee's critique of Pam Reynolds' NDE documented by Michael Sabom, and found some inconsistencies with it.

http://www.ianlawton.com/nde2.htm

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Byron100', 'C')ool, where do I sign up to become an atheist?

[greenworm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') dreamed that the sun went out, plunging the world into darkness, and I knew that all people on Earth would be dead in three short weeks.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '
')

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '
')

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', 'T')ime to go to bed...
photo

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'P')aul McCartney works for The Journal for Scientific Exploration?

[greenworm]

Holy ADD batman!

Um, have you had flying dreams is the topic not the bloody beatles and not the hoochy in the swimsuit. Anyone dare take a guess as to why this is such a prevalent dream? Anyone?