[Bas]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')hank you for caring, Bas, but the die-off crowd are the majority and they plan to withhold medication from those who depend on it, which means me.


Oh well, all for the good of the planet and stuff.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'D')ieoff isn't defeatist. Rather, it is a joyous strategy of hope and renewal.

At least, for the survivors....

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RonMN', 'J')PL...at the moment you are correct...there is no shortage of food.

Next year I expect that to be different...and i have preparred accordingly.

Have you?

P.S....you didn't answer my question...

Do you expect that people who are watching their children starve TO DEATH to remain NON-VIOLENT???

Seems like a resonable question...

[NEOPO]

Well TB I must say that you have earned my respect before yet never to the level that you have it now.

This is the bull' horns and you are one of the few and the truly brave who can put the words to these thoughts so correctly.

I do not even want to talk to these people anymore, rather sit and listen to you say what I can never seem to say correctly. I try but it just seems so vast, so large, so built up and supported by almost every facet of this unsustainable culture yet deep within I know it is not correct.

Almost everything I was taught is a lie and it took me a very long time to realize it.

Yes, die off is defeatist and those who do NOTHING but pray for a die off to "fix" the problem are defeatist and that is putting it nicely and not assuming that they are simply sick fuck's which is what I truly believe.

Someone mentioned the children and history... Why do we expect the children to learn history when we teach them nothing but lies?

Visions of Whitefeather

...better get good at farming and living indoors as otherwise you will NOT see it coming.

In This Twilight

You will NOT have your post die off peace.

I knew this video would come in handy one day - Ball Game Over

If, what many see as inevitable does come to pass then the only HARD choice I will have to make is which remaining sick elitist fuck should I off today.

Right Where It Belongs

Just an elaborate dream and thanks for seeming like an angel TB, in my elaborate dream...

[IanC]

Jack,

I respect your opinions and often agree with them. I notice you are a moderator, though, and I wonder how you can objectively moderate an open forum like this when you have such strong opinions that you often attack other members of the site.

To me, moderators facilitate discussion and guide discourse and keep themselves above the fray. What do you think?

-Ian

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('IanC', 'J')ack,

I respect your opinions and often agree with them. I notice you are a moderator, though, and I wonder how you can objectively moderate an open forum like this when you have such strong opinions that you often attack other members of the site.

To me, moderators facilitate discussion and guide discourse and keep themselves above the fray. What do you think?

-Ian

[NEOPO]

He thinks you should not ask so many questions and take it to PM land where he can say whatever without public scrutiny...

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '"')Die off" is a loaded term and defeatist.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')hank you for caring, Bas, but the die-off crowd are the majority and they plan to withhold medication from those who depend on it, which means me.


Oh well, all for the good of the planet and stuff.

[NEOPO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')hank you for caring, Bas, but the die-off crowd are the majority and they plan to withhold medication from those who depend on it, which means me.


Oh well, all for the good of the planet and stuff.

[Nano]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'T')he problem is - there are those of us who look at the phrase "Live simply so others may simply live" as both inane and counterproductive. If living abundantly requires some crimes against humanity, I'm willing. Perhaps I can cop a plea later...

And a lot of people will function that way. Most won't admit it now; but they'll do it with gusto later.

[Nano]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')hank you for caring, Bas, but the die-off crowd are the majority and they plan to withhold medication from those who depend on it, which means me.


Oh well, all for the good of the planet and stuff.

[skyemoor]

This thread is appropriately located in the Psychology forum.

Dieoff is a term that suggests extinction, I prefer something closer to "rightsizing" (like Dieback) to signify the natural response of a population overshooting its resource base renewal rate.

I do not shrug off the thought of abject misery and pain that will be associated with a 'rightsizing', though I will not obsess on it either. The philosophers and social observers of our time (who make it through) will give us much to muddle on in the new reality.

In the meantime, I look to find the best place to ride this out, learn how to live with less and still be happy, grow most of my family's food, and carefully nurture the same mindset in friends and relatives.

[Nano]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('skyemoor', 'I')n the meantime, I look to find the best place to ride this out, learn how to live with less and still be happy, grow most of my family's food, and carefully nurture the same mindset in friends and relatives.

[gg3]

I say call a spade a spade and a dieoff a dieoff.

And I practice what I preach, when I came within hours of getting seriously darwinized just about a year ago, as certain friends here know (though, no details please; confidentiality etc. etc.).

So with that in mind, as long as we don't push the climate above about +4 Celsius, we're probably going to make it with nothing worse than 3 - 5 billion miserable lingering deaths (which is better than extinction, don't you agree?), and a protracted dark age followed by a new enlightenment phase, and don't I wish I'd be alive long enough to see the latter.

That dark age will probably consist of wars and dictatorships and all that crap, with a few isolated pockets of enlightenment-oriented civilization (civilization defined: a condition of society characterized by increasing knowledge, and decreasing internal violence). I expect to be living in one of those little pockets of enlightened civilization, starting as soon as we can do the next land transaction and get the necessary paperwork in place to start building.

Anyway, yeah go down fighting alright. And never give up. It's better to try and fail, than to fail to try, and you just might succeed. Every single one of your ancestors did, and that's a decent track record.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', 'T')here isn't going to be a 'Die Off'. (I think most of us have figured that out by now...)

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nano', '[')Ludi, you appear shaken by the looming specter, as indeed we all might be to some degree. In all seriousness, I suggest you engage in bhakti yoga or something very much like it. That is the only sure-fire way to end your anxiety - indeed all anxiety - once and for all, in my opinion, in all ernest. I wish you would find a good spiritual master to learn it from. My 2 cents.

[threadbear]

Thanks all for posting. According to Monte' last post, 74% or 35 polled think there will be a die-off as oil production declines to zero.

Part of my original post, was to address the issue of how those who believe that, respond to their conclusions. If they have extra money kicking around, are they invested in oil stocks?

I'm just trying to get a handle on who is supporting the oil paradigm and why. It seems that religious fundamentalists who drive hummers and believe in the rapture, would also invest in oil stocks, rationalizing in their own way. It's philososphically consistent.

If peak oilers are doing this too, AND they aren't strong environmentalists, it's also somewhat consistant.

THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION:

Are there people posting here who are both strong environmentalists AND shareholders in oil companies? That is the million dollar question.

It seems to me that it's odd to slam our way of life, our over dependancy on oil, while investing in oil corporations. The only way an environmantalist could do this is if he/she concluded we are completely doomed anyway. I see the extreme Die off scenario, as actually supporting the case for acting in this way and I question it.

THAT is what I'm fighting. Acquiescance to an idea that MAY help to perpetuate the problem.

I have a sense that Monte, due to the work he does and the fact that he is an ardent environmentalist, probably isn't invested in oil corporations. Hey wait, I'll ask him.

Monte, are you invested in oil companies?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', ' ')Monte, are you invested in oil companies?

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'w')e know for certain that some of us on here WILL die