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Does a trillion pounds of debt matter?

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Does a trillion pounds of debt matter?

Unread postby Twilight » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 11:33:50

Oh my god, what bullshit.

Check this out.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')ebt is basically fine. In fact, we're coining it in the UK, with more wealth stretching ever further ahead of the amount we owe.

The people in trouble - who do exist - are a tiny minority accounting for a vanishingly small part of the trillion. Most debt is a sign not of penury, nor impending crash, but prodigiously increasing wealth.

Debt is wealth, relax people, record debt is record wealth.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he half we're always hearing, the alarming half, is how much we owe. The other half is how much we own.

So we hear that the British owe more on their mortgages than anywhere else in Europe. But we seldom hear the obvious corollary - that the British also own more housing wealth than anywhere else in Europe.

Paper wealth. It can be gone tomorrow. Negative equity anyone?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his is straight from the Enron school of reporting. It looks at only one half of the balance sheet, and ignores the rest.

How ironic.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut no one would look at their own finances this way.

More irony.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')ising debts are an indication of rising ability to borrow, resulting from rising wealth.

Can they say this out loud with a straight face in front of an audience?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut [the poor] have precious little to do with the big numbers, they do not indicate a national crisis, and they do not show that debt is bad.

Because guess who owes most? The richest - by far. Are they, or the nation, in crisis? Let's put it this way: they're not exactly weeping over their platinum credit cards.

Yes, because the economic well-being of the elite is what is important in an economy.

Though I do wonder whether holders of multi-million pound leveraged property portfolios, of which there are many, will be weeping in a few years.

The comments are great.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'V')ery reassuring I've got to admit and makes a lot of sense.

Good stuff, pacify the plebs.

The timing is impeccable.
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Re: Does a trillion pounds of debt matter?

Unread postby dukey » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 11:38:44

yeah debt is real funny
when u can't pay anymore
they just come and liquidate all your assets !
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Re: Does a trillion pounds of debt matter?

Unread postby OilIsMastery » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 11:40:17

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with Alexander Hamilton but the reason why debt is good is because it creates credit. Without debt you can have no credit. This is why the United States of America has had a national debt since the Founding Fathers.
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Re: Does a trillion pounds of debt matter?

Unread postby dukey » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 11:47:55

what you say is true
but there gets to a point where it becomes impossible to pay the interest

and then ure fucked
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Re: Does a trillion pounds of debt matter?

Unread postby mmasters » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 12:25:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', 'P')erhaps you are unfamiliar with Alexander Hamilton but the reason why debt is good is because it creates credit. Without debt you can have no credit. This is why the United States of America has had a national debt since the Founding Fathers.

This is just plain wrong and arrogent at that.

Hamilton was a bastard that wanted to get rich of helping to form a central bank (the First Bank of the United States). He ultimately failed in his quest. And to answer your second stupid point, you can have credit without debt, the congress could issue dollar bills as credit. Ever heard of the greenback? And thirdly, there has not always been a national debt, it has been abolished along with the national debt on a handful of occasions, the last being when Andrew Jackson had the Second Bank of the United States eliminated (which he fought his entire life to achieve).

Time to use the ignore feature again.
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Re: Does a trillion pounds of debt matter?

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 12:40:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilIsMastery', 'P')erhaps you are unfamiliar with Alexander Hamilton but the reason why debt is good is because it creates credit. Without debt you can have no credit. This is why the United States of America has had a national debt since the Founding Fathers.


So, we all get the borrow money with interest from those Jewish Bankers who just print the stuff up. Nice.............
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Re: Does a trillion pounds of debt matter?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 12:43:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', 'H')amilton ... wanted to ... form a central bank (the First Bank of the United States). He ultimately failed in his quest.


Actually, Hamilton has been proven right. Today the US has a central bank, called the "Federal Reserve Bank." 8)
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Re: Does a trillion pounds of debt matter?

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 12:52:50

And why does our Government need to go through a private corporation for issuing money?
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Re: Does a trillion pounds of debt matter?

Unread postby OilIsMastery » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 13:02:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 't')hose Jewish Bankers

Heil Hitler mein Kamarade.

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Re: Does a trillion pounds of debt matter?

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 15:40:16

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Re: Does a trillion pounds of debt matter?

Unread postby mattduke » Mon 20 Aug 2007, 17:46:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'A')nd why does our Government need to go through a private corporation for issuing money?

Go farther. Government is unnecessary for money. Money is a spontaneous free market phenomenon that requires no government regulation whatsoever. Carl Menger provided the answer in 1892.

Carl Menger
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Re: Does a trillion pounds of debt matter?

Unread postby Denny » Tue 21 Aug 2007, 00:15:10

[quote="mattduke]Go farther. Government is unnecessary for money. Money is a spontaneous free market phenomenon that requires no government regulation whatsoever. Carl Menger provided the answer in 1892.

Carl Menger[/quote]

Canada had no central bank until 1934. FromWikipedia - "Bank of Canada":
"For many years, Canada did not have a central bank. Each of the nation's large banks issued its own currency and there was little government regulation of the nation's money supply. The federal finance department only issued small denomination bills. The Bank of Montreal, then the nation's largest bank, acted as the government's banker. Canada, with its extensive branch banking, had a very stable banking system. There was little need for a lender of last resort and the banking system was not hit by the same seasonal liquidity problems as banks in the US. "

In fact, prior to 1934, the Canadian and U.S. dollars had a close exchange rate, it has just been since then that the central banks of Canada and the U.S. shifted away from gold backing that the rates of exchange between the currencies hasve fluctuated so much.

The central banks give the government another opportunity to play with the economic "levers". Lots of fun. Of course they all claim the central banks (or "reserve" banks) are beyond their control. They want you to think that, because, when it comes to money, politicians have reputations on par with bank robbers. In fact, bank robbers don't lie as often as politicians do.
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Re: Does a trillion pounds of debt matter?

Unread postby CrudeAwakening » Thu 23 Aug 2007, 04:59:31

FG, the World Bank was created at Bretton Woods in 1944, along with the IMF.
"Who knows what the Second Law of Thermodynamics will be like in a hundred years?" - Economist speaking during planning for World Population Conference in early 1970s
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Re: Does a trillion pounds of debt matter?

Unread postby TheDude » Thu 23 Aug 2007, 11:25:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ferrelgiraffe', 'Y')ou could use diamonds instead of paper money.


Or tally sticks.
Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
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Re: Does a trillion pounds of debt matter?

Unread postby mattduke » Thu 23 Aug 2007, 11:30:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'C')anada had no central bank until 1934.


Panama has no central bank.

Panamanian inflation is usually between 1 and 3 points lower than US inflation; it is caused mostly by the Federal Reserve's effect on world prices. This market-driven system has created an extremely stable macroeconomic environment. Panama is the only country in Latin America that has not experienced a financial collapse or a currency crisis since its independence.

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