[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', 'I') agree with this, I think we're screwed collectively and individual action is the way to go at this point.

[Iaato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'I') only have so many hours. I have a young family. I have a 40 hour a week job. When I do look at the weproposed solutions I see nothing with hope of working. Learning to garden, taking care of animals and building community take time and time is of finite quantity. I do I get the most return on time invested? I've made my decision.

But then again I never was a team player. Even my pre-school grade card noted, "Does not play well with others."

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')earning to garden, taking care of animals and building community take time and time is of finite quantity.

[Denny]

If you live in an apartment, that implies some degree of population density. What about keeing it real simple? Use the bus! For about $1400 a year you can have an unlimited pass. Probably less money than you'd spend just on car insurance.

Yeah, it takes a lot more time. But, that is why they invented books and the walkmen.

[Ayoob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'I')f you live in an apartment, that implies some degree of population density. What about keeing it real simple? Use the bus! For about $1400 a year you can have an unlimited pass. Probably less money than you'd spend just on car insurance.

Yeah, it takes a lot more time. But, that is why they invented books and the walkmen.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')earning to garden, taking care of animals and building community take time and time is of finite quantity.

[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'I')ndividual action is impossible or extremely limited for many people, though.

[Hawkcreek]

--

[eastbay]

'Plan? I ain't got no plan'



Remember what the train conductor said while escaping from the Thunderdome in 'Beyond Thunderdome' replying to Mad Max asking him what the plan was?

[Iaato]

Just remembered something else I wanted to say about scale as it pertains to the issue of acting individually versus locally versus globally. This quote from Sornette elsewhere on the internets about markets reminded me.

"As we already emphasized, the stock market is made of actors that differ in size by many orders of magnitude, ranging from individuals to gigantic professional investors such as pension funds. Structures at even higher levels, such as currency, influences spheres (US$, euro, yen etc), and with the current globalization and deregulation of the market one may argue that structures on the largest possible scale - that of the world economy - are beginning to form. This means that the structure of the financial markets has features that resemble that of hierarchical systems with 'agents' on all levels of the market.

"Of course, this does not imply that any strict hierarchical structure of the stock market exists. However, [there is a] critical phenomenon called 'log periodicity' in which, for instance, the probability or the hazard rate is not monotonously accelerating but is decorated by oscillations with frequencies accelerating as the critical time is approached."

I don't want to sideswipe the thread into markets. I just wanted to make the point that changes in the sphere of one's influence and interactions with the world expand as one gets older and wiser and more connected. The ability and desire to intervene tend to expand in scope to the community or even to larger scales. Home ranges expand, too. So while preparing the "I" for radical change helps in the very local environment (think your yard), interventions at the larger scale of the "We" community and bioregion are hugely more effective due to the hierarchy/scaling of things. It's much harder to understand the larger scale and then to effect change, though. Wasn't it Einstein who said you can't fix problems at the level at which they were created? You need to look one level up for the answers. "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayoob', 'T')he people are educated, they have every modern convenience and art form

[OilIsMastery]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayoob', 'T')hus, doom.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'I')n a country where millions have the same idea?

[Ferretlover]

SSSooooo...
One possible positive use for this forum is how to first secure our own (individual & family) future- no matter how basic it needs to be.
Essentially/ideally, our own biospheres:

Biosphere plans
link too long 1-jato

Why Biosphere II ?
link too long 2- jato

Then, having determined and put into motion personal situations, establish a cautious symbiotic relationship with those nearby.

There are a couple of planning forums here. But, I wonder if brainstorming some "rules" of what could be expected or should be expected might not be helpful to initiate the mindset change that will be necessary to survive...

[Ludi]

Some of us have been (trying) discussing this stuff here for years now. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. Discussion is good, but, like I say, there's no need to reinvent the wheel. Check out the Planning forum.

"Rules for what to expect"? I'm not even sure what that means...


Expect the unexpected.

[Chesire]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayoob', 'I') just got back from visiting heaven on Earth. Bottom line, it's absolutely beautiful. The people are educated, they have every modern convenience and art form, indoor plumbing, symphony orchestras, busses and trains, peace and tranquility in the streets.

These people have never known any kind of civil disturbance. That's why they can't imagine it. It hasn't happened to them yet.

When trouble comes, I don't think they'll recognize it as real trouble and figure somebody will bail them out. Nothing stays bad, it always gets fixed. They'll probably be sitting in their houses having tea and asking themselves why the mugging rate is so high and why the grocery store has been closed for a week. It's just crime. It's just gangs. It's just isolated cases of rape and looting. It's just isolated cases of arson, non-Terror-related. It's just random police corruption. The odd case of starvation. And home foreclosure. They fail to see the common thread.

The exercise of getting myself ready to be self-sufficient has been a real eye-opener. As much time as I spend on self-sufficiency, and as much work and money I allocate to the project, there is ALWAYS more to do. Anyone who expects the government to handle their needs is going to be way behind me in this effort.

Thus, doom.

I understand the Europeans and the Northern Democrats now. I wish you good luck.

[Ferretlover]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'S')ome of us have been (trying) discussing this stuff here for years now. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. Discussion is good, but, like I say, there's no need to reinvent the wheel. Check out the Planning forum. "Rules for what to expect"? I'm not even sure what that means...

[Pops]

Ferret that was a nice post, but you said:

I can make lists of things to hoard as well..

I can count on one hand those threads but can not count the number of threads that advise, educate, investigate, and provide links to actions other than buying stuff..

I don’t understand why one with your stated goals would attack such a place with worthless sidebars such as your post here.

As you also said:
An idea, or part of an idea, is contributed, then, for the most part, partially commented on, dismissed or just plain shot down.

There is a saying;
Take what you want and leave the rest…

[Ferretlover]

Thank you for the compliment, Pops.
I, too, am unable to count the threads that contain much valuable information, but in some topics of which I have little or no prior knowledge or experience, it is sometimes difficult to weed out the good stuff from the less-than-good (aren't I being PC? lol) until one finds enough to be able to make competent decisions. It's sort of like having the 1000 piece puzzle box that only comes with one starter piece. One has to look and look for the other 999 pieces that are mixed up with other puzzles....
I was not attacking this place (I knew I should have mentioned the tone-musing, inquiring- in which I was making my comments! drat!).
I am not sure I understand how it could be a nice post and worthless at the same time.
Those of you who have had the luxury for several years of talking things over might want to occasionally remember that there are many like me, who, like it or not, look to you, with respect, for some guidance to help us not head down the wrong paths or towards dead ends as we search for answers.
As for "An idea, or part...," I admit that I feel frustration when I can not find the answers (or parts of answers) that would point me to finding what I need or think that I need.
I do not expect to find everything that I think I need to know all neatly laid out for me-in many ways, it is important to be able to find and use good information to come to competent decisions.
Perhaps the my problem lies with reading so many "we are doomed" posts-if we Really know how we came to be where we are, aren't we also in a position to develop some positive ideas as to how to shape or influence the new world so that this situation never happens again?
If not, then all the preparations are worthless, except for planning our own funerals.
...sigh....

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'T')he nice thing about being a doomer or survivalist is that I only have to be right once to justify my stance. .