NArz, I admit you are in serious denial of reality.
People live in harm, compete not cooperate. You have to cooperate in global scale and discard competition. And this is improbable if not impossible.
I give you one example: Mom bought a snickers to her two sons, if she doesn't divide it into two halves they will fight each other over it. This is our "competition" culture. She made scarcity because each of her sons think this bar is for him. When she give it to one son more - making him priviliged (in any society we created we have priviliged class, and globally we have priviliged nations), and this is worse - we are used to thinking "this is ours".
In reality there is nobody to play mom's role.
We will compete, the world exists on the paradigm of competition. Once limits of growth are recognized it will become true - that economy is always win-lose game because of scarcity. Humanity is nonprofit, it doesn't produce more goods and doesn't care about the shareholders.
First - as humanity we have to stop slaughter each other and cooperate - impossible.
Second - as humanity we have to forget about our national interest, as it is catalyst for global competition - impossible.
Third - we need international agreement - forget it, impossible, look at Kyoto, and bigger efforts will be dismissed as well.
Fourth - we need to create quotas for oil, as it is scarce - this is absolutely impossible. We will compete by paying more or militarize this.
Fifth - we need set global population limits - IMPOSSIBLE, as abortion is treated like a murder, this is also war on religion. Sorry man, doesn't help as people believe in heaven-hell things.
Sixth - we need to use more of our fossil fuel to create sustainable technologies, not jet fuel for fighters, and diesel for tanks, and gas for SUV. Did I mention impossible?
Seventh - shift cultural thinking from "resources exist to be consumed" to "we have to manage them carefully". IMPOSSIBLE - it is not thinking of average man, it is not thinking of profit makers, people die they don't change.
Einstein once said "if 2% of world population agreed not to fight, we will never see wars". Forget, they rule, we follow.
Doomers know one thing - world will not change, so ultimately doom is inevitable.
PeakOil is You
Prosperity over Preparation and the Denial of Reality
Re: Prosperity over Preparation and the Denial of Reality
by Alcassin » Thu 26 Jul 2007, 14:48:34
Peak oil is only an indication and a premise of limits to growth on a finite planet.
Denial is the most predictable of all human responses.
Denial is the most predictable of all human responses.
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Re: Prosperity over Preparation and the Denial of Reality
by MonteQuest » Thu 26 Jul 2007, 14:50:28
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Montequest', 'W')e just don't want to hear that "doomer" negativity, no matter how rooted in solid biological science and history.
Don't we see that pattern here?
People are raliing against the notion, thinking, the very idea of a die-off from overshoot.
You rail against me, as if it is my thinking, my ideology, my beliefs that are in question.
Where are the critical minds that will try to refute the known biological science behind overshoot and collapse?
Where are the critical minds to try and refute Catton's seminal work on overshoot?
Folks, this isn't about me. I am just the messenger.
This is about your denial of reality.
This is about your denial of how the world works.
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
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Re: Prosperity over Preparation and the Denial of Reality
by Chesire » Thu 26 Jul 2007, 15:16:47
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Folks, this isn't about me. I am just the messenger.
This is about your denial of reality.
This is about your denial of how the world works
')Folks, this isn't about me. I am just the messenger.
This is about your denial of reality.
This is about your denial of how the world works
Denial is not just personal its society wide from my observations. IE if there are only going to be 500 million people post oil crash. It will break down something along these lines.
My little section of the world minus all the people I think need to be culled . Plus x amount of friendly , allied or people similar to me that add up to make up the difference to 500 million ).
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Re: Prosperity over Preparation and the Denial of Reality
by Ferretlover » Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:16:54
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', ' ') Changing a culture is possible, but changing humanity is not.
Ok, I admit it-I am dense. Could you please hit the highlights: How can there be any human culture that doesn't contain humans?
If a culture changes, doesn't that also mean that the humans made a change that changed their culture? IMHO, a culture can not change on its own-it is not a living entity.
I do understand that there are different kinds of cultures (although, I think that they all must have some similarities); I have never heard of a human culture that could survive without using the environment-eating up the plants, hunting , fishing, breathing..
"There are other cultures on earth that don't practice all out war on the environment."
Are you saying that a culture with the least interaction with the environment is the only viable culture? (I have written and rewritten this sentence about ten times..)
Take a deep breath, and be patient with me-but, I really am trying to understand your theory.
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Re: Prosperity over Preparation and the Denial of Reality
by MonteQuest » Thu 26 Jul 2007, 16:45:59
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', ' ') Changing a culture is possible, but changing humanity is not.
Ok, I admit it-I am dense. Could you please hit the highlights: How can there be any human culture that doesn't contain humans?
If a culture changes, doesn't that also mean that the humans made a change that changed their culture? IMHO, a culture can not change on its own-it is not a living entity.
I do understand that there are different kinds of cultures (although, I think that they all must have some similarities); I have never heard of a human culture that could survive without using the environment-eating up the plants, hunting , fishing, breathing..
"There are other cultures on earth that don't practice all out war on the environment."
Are you saying that a culture with the least interaction with the environment is the only viable culture? (I have written and rewritten this sentence about ten times..)
Take a deep breath, and be patient with me-but, I really am trying to understand your theory.
We used to practice "limited competition" like all other forms of life...until we created agri-culture which forgot about the law of nature. Then we waged all out war on it, killing everything but human food.
There are cultures today that still practice limited competition and do not have famines, even in drought conditions. Can you name them?
Trouble is, with the Great Forgetting, we forgot.
Read the Story of B by Daniel Quinn.
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
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