[mark]

Yes, go read Kurzwei; though at 672 pages it’s a monumental waste of good sock sorting time.

He has provided, however, the most compelling evidence I’ve seen that we’ve reached the top; sort of like appearing on the cover of Time magazine. If there’s one thing you can be certain of, we are not going to partner with computers. Of course events are going to have to prove that to people like Omnitir. Unfortunately we’ll all suffer one way or another just so some thick-skulled, knuckleheaded morons learn their lesson.

Still, what a great time to be alive! We have the opportunity to set the stage for a new way of life, one where people actually matter. Hope some of us get there.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Russian_Cowboy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'L')et me illustrate this with an analogy. Suppose you found a bag of money or won the lottery.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')rosperity over Preparation and the Denial of Reality

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', '
')Huebner's argument is flawed. Go read some Kurzweil. Technology is actually accelerating.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', 'M')onte's analogy is flawed. The oil age was not the same as spending an entire lottery win on a high lifestyle without planning for the future.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NugBlazer', '[')b]Sometimes I wonder if Hedonism is the way to go. After years of trying to enlighten people about Peak Oil, and hoping that humanity will do the right thing and begin to powerdown and plan for the future, I've realized that it just isn't gonna happen. We will not begin to change until it's waaaaaay too late, as is often human nature. In short: we're screwed, as you already pointed out.

So, I ask, if we're pretty much screwed, then why not just go out with a bang? It's horrible thinking, I know, but honestly, does it really matter? I'm begining to think it doesn't.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', ' ')Likewise, the oil age has not entirely been about wasting our one time gift in pursuit of a high standard of living. While that is mostly what people have cared about, it's disingenuous to assume that the spending of the oil lottery payout has been entirely a waste, when it can be argued that, like the analogy of buying a house, this spending has been a form of investment that may or may not pay off.

[Alcassin]

Monte, I share the same feelings about it.

We could have used our oil energy on something better than another scent of Dior. The closer we are TSHTF the worse my feelings are, people want to consume anything what can give you a microsecond pleasure, and nobody really cares about tomorrow. There is more porn tapes than documentaries in shops, main internet search are sex and porn, people care more what is going on with Paris Hilton than ecology. So called "researches" are talking more about colonizing Mars than about polluted rivers. Nothing will change.

We have marvellous technologies, sure, but we can't implement that for 1 billion people in the first world in few years not even mention how to deal with the entire population of the globe. Meantime everybody around is happy with growing economy, taking loans, living beyond their means. They are living in reality - reality which is emulated from their dream.

Sometimes when I talk about PO people look at me as I were from Mars. Some people reject it absolutely, some people doesn't care treating me like a funny but silly guy who told a good Stephen King alike story People also rejects the idea of limits to growth which is similar, so the economists told the sheeple - "see we didn't used up everything and the economy grows, they were wrong". People just look at us like we were beggars shouting "The end is near".

End is near, I don't care if it is tomorrow, next year or in 2015. When it happens effect will be the same as it would happen today.
The longer plateau the faster depletion rate is and collapse of civilazation is inevitable. Looks like we are on this plateau, and we try to keep it as long as possible making the world during this crucial moment more dependant on oil than ever.

I hope I'm wrong.

[MC2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', 'E')xcellent point mmasters. TPTB were never interested in sustainability because it denies their foundation. Another realization I mentioned before is that everyone including TPTB do not have free will, neither individually or collectively. Their culture prevents a humanistic policy towards the common man.

I'm sure the average person if given a different history with opportunity for sustainable living, would all choose it over what we have today. If it meant sacrificing the cultural achievements of the past 50 years, which in humble and honest opinion is the pinnacle of all of western history, I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. Its a selfish thought, but at the same time I'm fully aware I'm very much susceptible to the die-off. We were born into this society and instead of fighting fate, its healthier to find the beauty it created, even with the little time left of civilization.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MC2', ' ') Yes, it's a liquid fuels crisis, at present, but the technology is most definitely there to ameliorate that crisis through electric assist technology, and, in the not distant future, to virtually eliminate the need for large quantities of liquid fuels from centralized production and storage for end users (yes, there will continue to be a need for mass transportation).

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', ' ') There is an alternative. We use half the fossil fuel we did 5 years ago. We save $2655 every year.

[Homesteader]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MC2', ' ') Yes, it's a liquid fuels crisis, at present, but the technology is most definitely there to ameliorate that crisis through electric assist technology, and, in the not distant future, to virtually eliminate the need for large quantities of liquid fuels from centralized production and storage for end users (yes, there will continue to be a need for mass transportation).

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Homesteader', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', ' ')See what I mean? We want a fix.

[Alcassin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')There is a lot of reason for optimism, but the world is going to have to change, and that will be painful.

[mmasters]

Combine the oil extravaganza, the false prosperity from our financial system along with the entitlement attitude, lack of critical thinking, lack of nutrition, lack of savings, etc.., and you have the makings of an unprecedented nightmare of unfathomable proportions.

Puts all the petty stuff people get upset about today in perspective.

[whereagles]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'R')ationality isn't the reason most people do things. They just do what their neighbors do. If their neighbors go out and get a new car, they do too. Humans aren't that smart.

[oowolf]

Amerikan Mass Psychosis is well entrenched--and constantly reinforced by the Idiotland media. I've been warning people for decades to become more self-sufficient but no longer give a damn. I'm puking sick of humans with their insane delusions, pretensions, cruelty and pathological stupidity. Civilization was a mistake; the rise of Corporatism insured our doom. Trying to live a sane life in this "culture" has been an exercise in existential nausea. Dieoff can't come too soon for me.
Have a nice day..
UberDoomer oowolf

[evilgenius]

Sorry Revi, I was trying on a joke there. I didn't intend for you to do anything more than acknowledge that the worst is possible (what so much humor relies on) and leave it at that. I have been thinking about some of what you have done as well. I reckon that a wind generator can be put together from left overs of the old age fairly easily. Everything is, after all, already under the hood, everything except the blades (which can probably be made from the doors) and the inverter that can be taken from an RV.

I suppose water is really the hard thing to ensure you have enough of? Then you can list the longer term things that will be difficult, like anti-biotics. I guess I can grow my own for glaucoma. As far as defending myself, I'll succeed or I guess I die. I know my chances are better in a group. My loved one's chances certainly are.

As for whether there is a chance mankind could have avoided this. Yes, I think so. Of course, that is assuming that we learned to live within our means. I suspect, in fact, that everyone that has ever lived could probably live at once on the planet given the right way of living. There is a lot to overcome down that road, however, and I have a hard time believing that man will get there is one fell swoop. After this works its way out, maybe?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', ' ') I suspect, in fact, that everyone that has ever lived could probably live at once on the planet given the right way of living.

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('whereagles', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'R')ationality isn't the reason most people do things. They just do what their neighbors do. If their neighbors go out and get a new car, they do too. Humans aren't that smart.