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How does a utility manuipulate the market?

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How does a utility manuipulate the market?

Unread postby Denny » Thu 14 Jun 2007, 20:54:42

This is s strange article, as it claims a utility, Hydro-Quebec, manipulated prices along the U.S. northeast poweer corridor over a period of time. See link


First off, it would only provide a small share of the power demand. And, presumably, the independent powoer authority would be smart enough to realizxe it was being overcharged. Hydro-Quebec wasn't sellking the juice to Ma and Pa Clampett.

Secondly, its government owned, and that is not the kind of behaior you'd think of from a government. Unlike Enron, what would the principal officers of Hydro-Quebec have to gain by breaking the law?

Lastly, how would the lawsuit be enforceable, as the head office is not even in the U.S., just some sales office with miniscule assets, so what could the claimants attach even if they won the case?
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Re: How does a utility manuipulate the market?

Unread postby ohanian » Thu 14 Jun 2007, 22:24:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'T')his is s strange article, as it claims a utility, Hydro-Quebec, manipulated prices along the U.S. northeast poweer corridor over a period of time. See link


First off, it would only provide a small share of the power demand. And, presumably, the independent powoer authority would be smart enough to realizxe it was being overcharged. Hydro-Quebec wasn't sellking the juice to Ma and Pa Clampett.

Secondly, its government owned, and that is not the kind of behaior you'd think of from a government. Unlike Enron, what would the principal officers of Hydro-Quebec have to gain by breaking the law?

Lastly, how would the lawsuit be enforceable, as the head office is not even in the U.S., just some sales office with miniscule assets, so what could the claimants attach even if they won the case?


I don't know what your problem is.

This is a FREE MARKET. Hydro-Quebec is free to charge whatever ridiculous prices it so chooses. You or the consumers are free not to buy from it.

Besides, you are not even a citizen of Canada so why should Hydro-Quebec give a damn what you think of its pricing practices.

Take my advice, don't have anything to do with Hydro-Quebec, besides their electricity is probably sour anyway.
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Re: How does a utility manuipulate the market?

Unread postby Denny » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 10:15:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ohanian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'T')ake my advice, don't have anything to do with Hydro-Quebec, besides their electricity is probably sour anyway.


Actually, I am a Canadian.

But, I like your idea. If we spread the rumour that Quebec's electricity is sour, we can buy it up cheaper for Ontario, because we are basically screwed for electric power here in the years coming up, particularly when they shut down the big coal burner in Nanticoke.
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Re: How does a utility manuipulate the market?

Unread postby aahala » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 11:06:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'T')his is s strange article, as it claims a utility, Hydro-Quebec, manipulated prices along the U.S. northeast poweer corridor over a period of time. See link



I guess they have changed the page, I can't find the article
from the link provided.
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Re: How does a utility manuipulate the market?

Unread postby strider3700 » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 13:33:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ohanian', '
')
This is a FREE MARKET


Well I can buy my power from BC hydro, produce it myself or go without so yeah technically it's a free market. Although I'm not certain it's legal to live in a house without electricity here. so that may remove one of my choices. I'm almost certain that my insurance company would have issues with me if I told them I used candles and lanterns exclusively for light.
shame on us, doomed from the start
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Re: How does a utility manuipulate the market?

Unread postby Denny » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 15:18:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I guess they have changed the page, I can't find the article
from the link provided.


Try this:

Globe and Mail Its a direct to the newspaper web site, the other was form a financial service company.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o tell me how many vendors are there in this 'free market' of yours. Do the consumers really have an option or are we talking about maybe three providers whose daughters are all married to each others sons?

No, its not the retail Hydro-Quebec customers, they are a captive bunch. In this case, its other utilities are claiming that Hydro-Quebec is somehow rigging the market, causing thenm to pay more thatn they should. But, these companies have the experts and would be able to buy elsewhere, or not at all, if the prices were out of line for the electyricity, so you'd think.
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Re: How does a utility manuipulate the market?

Unread postby aahala » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 11:49:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'I')n this case, its other utilities are claiming that Hydro-Quebec is somehow rigging the market, causing thenm to pay more thatn they should. But, these companies have the experts and would be able to buy elsewhere, or not at all, if the prices were out of line for the electyricity, so you'd think.


This could be the case, but the article is silient on whether
DC Energy is a utility. It's described as an energy trading firm.
Just from that info, it's possible DC is nothing more than a
speculation group, trying to flim flam the market themselves.
If so, it can explain how possible small changes in Hydro-Quebec
behavior would be so unwanted by DC Energy -- it would be
DC that would have been trapped on the wrong side of their
bets.
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Re: How does a utility manuipulate the market?

Unread postby Starvid » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 15:52:15

When we are talking about hydroelectricity and Quebec, it's impossible not to mention the James Bay Project, a veritable wonder of the world.

A series of hydroplants covering an area the size of the entire state of New York, built at a cost of 20 billion US dollars and a capacity of 16,000 MW.

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Re: How does a utility manuipulate the market?

Unread postby Denny » Sat 16 Jun 2007, 23:08:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', 'W')hen we are talking about hydroelectricity and Quebec, it's impossible not to mention the James Bay Project, a veritable wonder of the world.


I knew an engineer who came from Quebec, and the project became a symbol of the renaissance of French Quebeckers. For two centuries after the British conquest, the French Canadians felt like peasants in their own land. But the growth of technical universities in the 1950's and 1960's opened the door to them taking on greater technological and economic challenges. Most of the design and construction of this massive project was done by the "home grown" help in the late 1960's and 1970's. Something the whole province took pride in.

It was commissioned by government owned Hydro-Quebec. But, most all major projects in Canada over the years have been government connected, even the privately owned CP railway had a big share of government subsidies. I think its one thing that has separated U.S. and Canadian ideology. Americans fear government involvement due to inefficiency ad corruption. But, for most big scale stuff, Canadians found that private money was never enough to get big things done, so we swallowed our similar fears to get things done. Most nation wide infrastructure right from the time of the post office, has been established by government, right to this day. Broadcasting, telephones, power distribution, airlines.
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