Peak Oil
Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Gasoline Inventory issue: Worse than I thought

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.
Post a reply

Re: Worse than I thought

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sun 13 May 2007, 00:03:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'W')e will all know gas prices are too high when the month comes in which consumption starts to decline...


...and unemployment rises along with business losses, coupled with gas syphoning, drive-aways, and hoarding.
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
User avatar
MonteQuest
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 16593
Joined: Mon 06 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Westboro, MO
Top

Re: Worse than I thought

Unread postby Sheb » Sun 13 May 2007, 06:39:21

Despite all the crazy-assed threads out there, I find this relatively sober one to be the scariest I've ready so far. Thanks Airline Pilot!

So, as I prepare to move across the country I'll just have to be keeping tabs on things daily. All the necessaries have been taken care of, though, with respect to equipment (trailer, hand truck), logistics (fuel etc), and friends along the way in stopping points should stopping be prudent (Kentucky, Missouri, Colorado), and finally friends and family in Albuquerque. Although I don't think there will be a crisis in the next 5 weeks, it can't hurt to at least be watchful.

Crisis, or no, things certainly are heating up, eh? Still, I just take things day by day, doing what I can each day--no more, no less. If things get hot at gas stations and grocery stores and on the road, Just gotta keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it you :)
User avatar
Sheb
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon 16 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: New Mexico
Top

Re: Worse than I thought

Unread postby tmazanec1 » Sun 13 May 2007, 13:36:01

I am hoping for a switch in priorities for what our resources are used for to making more sustainable society. Maybe another energy crisis will get us to do so (like the last one started to).
tmazanec1
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue 12 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Worse than I thought

Unread postby ColossalContrarian » Sun 13 May 2007, 14:49:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sabibaby', 'I')'ll tell you what motivates me about higher gas prices to force conservation among the masses.


And how does a reduction in economic activity, with the accompanying job and business losses, help?

Conservation will just lower the price which increases consumption.

Jevon's Paradox.

You mean rationing, don't you?

I guess rationing and forced conservation amount to the same thing but I’m also thinking that if gas were taxed more the revenue could be put back into the system and applied to more efficient mass transit. But… in retrospect this would lead back to lower price and increased consumption -negating the urgency for better mass transit... So, since we can’t make the economy any more vulnerable than it already is and conservation will ultimately lead to increased consumption, I’m going back to the title of this thread and adding *Sooner than I thought*
ColossalContrarian
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1374
Joined: Tue 20 Jun 2006, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Worse than I thought

Unread postby Pops » Sun 13 May 2007, 14:55:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DantesPeak', '.').. or thought adjusting to the new reality of PO was unprofitable ...


When you echo something I posted quite a while back, regarding my amateur logic that more refineries would have been built if there were a possibility they would have something to refine -

well, it doesn’t exactly brighten my day.

Or perhaps the fault was in planning...
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac
Top

Re: Worse than I thought

Unread postby shortonoil » Sun 13 May 2007, 15:34:40

tmazanec1 said:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') am hoping for a switch in priorities for what our resources are used for to making more sustainable society. Maybe another energy crisis will get us to do so (like the last one started to).


The “last one” ended when good smoke turned into snowy lines, and handshakes turned into contracts. The period of the 70’s, where conservation became an idiom, mutated into the conspicuous consumption ideology of the 80’s. It was the beginnings of the need for the wife, two dogs and a 7000 sq. ft house with central air and a pool to house them. For us to regain, that which was started and circumvent Jevon's Paradox, we need to learn that there is a difference between what we need and what we want. The two are now, often confused.
User avatar
shortonoil
False ETP Prophet
False ETP Prophet
 
Posts: 7132
Joined: Thu 02 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Location: VA USA
Top

Re: Worse than I thought

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sun 13 May 2007, 15:45:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sabibaby', ' ')I guess rationing and forced conservation amount to the same thing...


Hardly...although both encourage efficiency gains...which, in the former, is good because of restricted consumption.

Personally, I see no way, short of restricted per capita energy consumption, to reduce consumption in a free market.
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
User avatar
MonteQuest
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 16593
Joined: Mon 06 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Westboro, MO
Top

Re: Worse than I thought

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 13 May 2007, 22:36:56

Who restricts it and for how long? Is it worldwide?

I tend to agree with your impulse, here, but I would love to hear one of your fuller thoughtful responses on what if anything could conceivably work even in the best (enlightened politicians and populus...) conditions.

In the mean time, what are people's predictions for gas prices by the end of May, of June, of July, of August...? Some have been surprised in the last few weeks that prices have outstripped their dire predictions. It would be interesting (grimly) to see if prices continue to outstrip even the "gloomy" predictions of those on this forum.
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 19990
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Worse than I thought

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sun 13 May 2007, 22:59:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'W')ho restricts it and for how long? Is it worldwide?


Who? An army of some sorts.

For how long? Forever...or until the population comes into balance with the environment and a paradigm shift has taken place with regard to our expectations of growth.

Of course, it has to be world-wide.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') tend to agree with your impulse, here, but I would love to hear one of your fuller thoughtful responses on what if anything could conceivably work even in the best (enlightened politicians and populus...) conditions.


A depression without end, perhaps?

There is no workable solution within our current world paradigm that does not result in a short-term, selfish, stop-gap measure, period.

Our cultural direction and asset inertia are just too strong.

We will burn the furniture, first.
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
User avatar
MonteQuest
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 16593
Joined: Mon 06 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Westboro, MO
Top

Re: Worse than I thought

Unread postby joewp » Sun 13 May 2007, 23:50:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'W')ho restricts it and for how long? Is it worldwide?


Who? An army of some sorts.

For how long? Forever...or until the population comes into balance with the environment and a paradigm shift has taken place with regard to our expectations of growth.

Of course, it has to be world-wide.


Monte, I didn't know you were such a dreamer. :)

Of course none of this can ever happen, even in the Tri-Lareral Commision/Bilderburgers wildest dreams. We're basically going to burn whatever is available and I'll bet there's going to be a lot of places where they won't stop with just burning the furniture, if you catch my drift. (Soylent Green Firewood)

We're just going to go over the cliff like the proverbial lemmings without looking back. Personally, I hope to find a place soon where I can sit off to the side watching the exodus while smoking some weed and eating fruit, nuts and berries, a la Merry and Pippin at the runins of Isengard.

What an indictment of so-called "human intelligence".
Joe P. joeparente.com
"Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they realize that you cannot eat money." - Cree Indian Proverb
User avatar
joewp
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2054
Joined: Tue 05 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Keeping dry in South Florida
Top

Re: Worse than I thought

Unread postby Gazzatrone » Mon 14 May 2007, 06:28:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('tmazanec1', 'I') am hoping for a switch in priorities for what our resources are used for to making more sustainable society. Maybe another energy crisis will get us to do so (like the last one started to).


The only problem with this is the little obstacle of how "How the World Works". No shareholders en masse will agree to see their profits be put into funding discovery or manufaction of renewables that may or may not work for what will ultimately be their benefit. And if you think their attitudes will change should another energy crisis hit us then you are sadly mistaken as there won't be the energy to create means to save us.
THE FUTURE IS HISTORY!
User avatar
Gazzatrone
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 581
Joined: Mon 07 Nov 2005, 04:00:00
Location: London, UK
Top

Re: Worse than I thought

Unread postby KevO » Mon 14 May 2007, 06:46:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gazzatrone', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('tmazanec1', 'I') am hoping for a switch in priorities for what our resources are used for to making more sustainable society. Maybe another energy crisis will get us to do so (like the last one started to).


The only problem with this is the little obstacle of how "How the World Works". No shareholders en masse will agree to see their profits be put into funding discovery or manufaction of renewables that may or may not work for what will ultimately be their benefit. And if you think their attitudes will change should another energy crisis hit us then you are sadly mistaken as there won't be the energy to create means to save us.


What I see again and again with the peak oil scenario is everybody is looking to continue how they live only with an oil replacement.
When will we all wake up to the fact that there is no replacement?
biofuels, hydrogen, wind and solar won't replace it. simple as that.
The EROEI on a wind turbine is a none starter. It takes 15 years for a wind turbine to give back the energy that went into making it!! then it'll need to be maintained and replaced therefore never actually giving anything. Pretty much the same with solar.
The US would need another 100 plus nuclear power stations to run it on hydrogen and biofuels will not replace the transport system.

In short, and short is all we have now, there is NOT one or a number of replacements.
We've got to power down and prepare and learn for a new future, a completely new future which will likely not have any electricity to speak of and no fuels other than those sourced locally.
The CBS series, 'Jericho' is very likely to pretty much how we will all be, only (hopefully)without the nukes
KevO
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2775
Joined: Tue 24 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: CT USA
Top
Previous
Post a reply

Return to Peak Oil Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest



cron