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Go Back in Time: What would you have done?

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: What would you have done?

Unread postby Jack » Thu 10 May 2007, 21:24:54

The problem here is that we have one, singular event that must prevent peak oil. To accomplish that, one must either:

1) Permanently limit human population to a small number

2) Change human attitudes such that they no longer pursue exponential growth.

Either one is tough to do. For my "one act" I suppose I would try to change the attitudes.

It might be possible to go back to Egypt and Amenhotep IV, and do various "magic" - say, a 10 megaton thermonuclear device on some other country's city - to persuade him that one was the emissary of Ra. Then introduce a set of beliefs. All would subscribe to those beliefs or they would be terminated.

Then innoculate the population. Call it receiving Ra's blessing.

Then release a bioengineered virus to eliminate the rest of the human race.

It could work. But I suspect the believers would stray from the fold. 8)
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Re: What would you have done?

Unread postby NEOPO » Thu 10 May 2007, 23:04:24

I would go back many generations to my great x70 grandfather Atilla and convince him to raze Constantinople and Rome to the ground! :)
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Re: What would you have done?

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Thu 10 May 2007, 23:16:28

Wouldn't it be easier to tell Congress in 1912 to mandate 100 MPG cars?
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Re: What would you have done?

Unread postby kochevnik » Thu 10 May 2007, 23:36:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Baldwin', ' ')Then England came and came within a hairs' breadth of destroying Irish culture.



Bollocks - and I'm Irish too.

Around 1850 Ireland had 8 MILLION people.

Today they have 3 million.

The Irish did it to themselves - the Brits helped certainly - but having three times the population you should have had makes the Irish a good object lesson for PO.


Going back in time -

I would kill the grandfather of Jesus, Mohammed and L. Ron Hubbard.

If you did this and could introduce the birth control pill - say in the first few centuries AD - I think we would have been ok. Keep in mind the Romans were only missing a few key pieces of tech and with them they would have become an industrial power almost 2000 years ago. They had roads, aqueducts, machines and indoor plumbing - all they needed was steel and oil and the world could have had it's PO crisis two millenium ago.
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Re: What would you have done?

Unread postby Ebyss » Fri 11 May 2007, 03:39:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'I')'ld go back to East Coast United States in about 1680 and give the Indians a few history books about their fate and then I'd give them machine guns and rpgs.


Me too, except I'd make it 1492.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')round 1850 Ireland had 8 MILLION people.

Today they have 3 million.

The Irish did it to themselves - the Brits helped certainly - but having three times the population you should have had makes the Irish a good object lesson for PO.


Bollocks - the only reason Ireland starved was because the land was divided up by the British and farmers were forced onto tiny plots and were limited (again by British landlords) to growing potatoes and no other crops. Those who refused got their land taken away from them.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')Subdivision" resulted from The Popery Act which was one of the Penal Laws (Ireland), enacted to discriminate against Roman Catholics. The Act divided lands and property equally among male heirs (instead of being inherited by the first-born son); over generations, tenant farm size shrank, split between all living sons. By the 1840s, subdivision resulted in Catholics working the smallest farms and so becoming ever poorer.

In 1845, for example, 24% of all Irish tenant farms were of 0.4 to 2 hectares (one to five acres) in size, while 40% were of two to six hectares (five to fifteen acres). Holdings were so small that only potatoes — no other crop — would suffice to feed a family. The British Government reported, shortly before the Great Hunger, that poverty was so wide-spread that one third of all Irish small holdings could not support their families, after paying their rent, except by earnings of seasonal migrant labour in England and Scotland.[2]

By the 1840s, the Irish land-holding system was under serious strain. Many big landlord estates already carried heavy mortgages from earlier farm crises. Ten percent went bankrupt due to the Great Hunger.[citation needed] Many small tenancies, lacking long-term leases, rent control or security of tenure, became so small and unsustainable — through subdivision — that the tenants struggled to survive even in the good years, and depended on the potato crop, as only potatoes would provide enough nutrition on such small farms. Yet, the large landlord estates — owned by absentee Britons — exported many tons of cattle and other foodstuffs to foreign markets. Any attempt by the tenant farmer to increase productivity of their land-holding was actively discouraged by threats of disproportionately high increase in rent — and even eviction.
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Re: What would you have done?

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 11 May 2007, 06:27:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '1')789 put it in the constitution that it is a federal offense to export raw materials.


Well, considering that in 1789, the overwhelming majority of our exports were raw materials...you'd be permanently bankrupting the country. :roll:

I would go back to 1914 and tell the British to stay out of WW1.


A permanently agrarian USA wouldn't have gotten into this mess ;)

As for your plan, lest we forget you would have to have them repudiate the treaty with Belgium before the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand.


#1. A permanently broke USA would have been eaten alive by creditors. We would be run by some banker's nephew from Holland by about 1800.

#2. Who cares about Belgium? The British Empire covered 30% of the world's land and 1/4 of its people in 1914. They could deal with losing the support of Belgium. And every single place that the British colonized were better off as a result (at least in aggregate, the locals suffered horribly in some places for a while)


Why would anyone in Europe extend credit to the USA if there were no raw material exports allowed? Europe wanted the raw materials to use in their own manufactories, not finished goods. If the USA wasn't selling the empire builders would have concentrated their efforts on the places they had better control over.

As for Belgium, I suppose the Belgians are the ones who care but you miss the point. If the UK repudiated the treaty with Belgium in say 1913 then they would have had no international obligation to get involved in WW I. At the time Germany was a better friend than France, the monarchs of the UK and Germany were near relatives fer crying out loud! It was only because Germany invaded France through Belgium that forced the UK to fight, or lose face and reputation world wide. No Empire can afford to loose reputation, most of the people who think about revolting in an Empire never do because they fear the consequences. If the Empire looses its reputation for saying what they mean and meaning what they say they are in for a rough ride. That is why politicians should keep their hands off of war planning and execution, they should make policy and let the military enforce it, not micro-manage. That if nothing else, is the lesson of Viet Nam for America.
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Re: What would you have done?

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 11 May 2007, 06:37:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'S')uck most of the fossil fuels out of the ground and shoot them into the sun before we started using them much.


A variation on this Shanny, you can learn where all the big fields are like Cantrell and Ghawar and East Texas mega-fields. Go back to say 100 AD and drill a single gusher in each and allow them to depressurize naturally over about 100 years. If you get rid of all the big pressured fields before mankind decides to use the stuff there will never be a large easily accessed supply and the car culture will never develop.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
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One equal temper of heroic hearts,
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: What would you have done?

Unread postby ucosty » Fri 11 May 2007, 06:45:09

I'm picturing it now. Fewer cars and more pollution and the same people sitting around this website (instead called peak coal or peak firewood or something) talking about production curves of forests or strip mines :lol:
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Re: What would you have done?

Unread postby Madpaddy » Fri 11 May 2007, 17:24:51

I'ld go back, pretend I was a deity and tell Adam that Eve really likes in in the botty.
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Re: What would you have done?

Unread postby Madpaddy » Fri 11 May 2007, 17:26:11

I'ld have prevented Noah boarding the Ark.
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Re: What would you have done?

Unread postby basil_hayden » Fri 11 May 2007, 22:51:16

Go back to the monkey that mutated into a human and inject some genes that would allow for the understanding of the exponential function right off the bat, then party with him until dawn.

Guess I have to go forward and invent that gene first. :)
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Re: What would you have done?

Unread postby Zardoz » Sat 12 May 2007, 00:17:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'W')ouldn't it be easier to tell Congress in 1912 to mandate 100 MPG cars?

Actually, that might have done it. Our entire society would've developed differently. It would've made an enormous difference.
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Re: Go Back in Time: What would you have done?

Unread postby Tikib » Wed 28 Jan 2015, 06:01:45

Old thread I know but:
Create a nuclear war over the Cuban Missile Crisis.

The few survivors would have a cooler climate and not enough oil reserves to rebuild. To anywhere near current population levels.
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Re: Go Back in Time: What would you have done?

Unread postby joyfulbozo » Wed 28 Jan 2015, 07:05:21

SIMPLY I WOULD HAVE INVESTED IN OIL.... LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Go Back in Time: What would you have done?

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 28 Jan 2015, 09:33:27

Instructive to note that even back in 2007, years before I joined, members named "milt", "Jack", "Tikib", "kochevnik", and "basil_hayden" recognized that peak oil and AGW and <insert favorite resource peak here> were only symptoms of overpopulation, and that it does not matter in the least whether you treat the symptoms, if you don't solve the underlying issue.
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Re: Go Back in Time: What would you have done?

Unread postby evilgenius » Wed 28 Jan 2015, 11:38:14

I would convince the CIA, or whomever, that it was not against the US national interest for oil producing countries to use their own oil in order to develop industrialized rather than export based economies. Yeah, sure, we'd have had worse economic shocks here and there, and earlier, but overall not any worse than what the sum total will be the way it was done. The proper reaction to those shocks, and a lack of fear over them, should have won the cold war just as handily, and seen the US in the same top spot it enjoys today. The absence of the rising third world problems due to the collision of such vast differences could have been avoided, though.

But that would be a tall order for just one person going back in time. You'd either have to take others, in sufficient numbers to provide a convincing level of agreement, or perform miracles for them. There's a reason why Jesus performed miracles when what He really wanted to do was change people's hearts. Not even his own disciples listened to Him, even when a voice came out of a cloud and told them to. So to think that one person going back in time could achieve real change is probably absurd.
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Re: Go Back in Time: What would you have done?

Unread postby dinopello » Wed 28 Jan 2015, 12:24:59

I'd go back to 2004 and join up on PO.com and lay out exactly what was going to happen and have real fun fending off the other less informed prognosticators for a decade or so, all the while linking back to my original post saying "see I was right again". Eventually, you all would think I'm some kind of genius and worship the ground I type on.

Oh, and I'd buy a lot of the right stock and be richer than the Kochs.
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Re: Go Back in Time: What would you have done?

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 28 Jan 2015, 15:36:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ucosty', 'H')i ppl (Bear with me, this premise is far fetched at best)

If you could go back to some arbitrary time in the past, and somehow get a lot of influence or control, what would you change so that we could avoid the heavy handed outcome of peak oil.

I just have one request: don't talk about what shouldn't have been done. Just talk about what you would have done. That way the conversation is more on topic and positive. :-D


How does this grab you, gather together 5,000 ethnically diverse humans of the Millennial's, put them through tough survival training and lead them back about 10 Millions years to an island off the coast of North America like Hispaniola. There they can accept me as their cult leader and never have to worry about fossil fuels causing global warming. My wise book of rules for a successful life would be like a larger version of the Georgia Guidstones calling upon them to limit world population to about 2 Billion.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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