[mididoctors]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'R')ationing is a viable solution for short-term emergencies but won't work as a long-term powerdown measure.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')or the long term: Relentlessly increase the efficiency standards on vehicles and on building HVAC systems and on appliances. Do it under the claim of energy independence.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mididoctors', 'w')hy?.. I sort of get the idea about why people say this..but no one really explains why?

[Twilight]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mididoctors', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'R')ationing is a viable solution for short-term emergencies but won't work as a long-term powerdown measure.

[mididoctors]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mididoctors', 'w')hy?.. I sort of get the idea about why people say this..but no one really explains why?

[Twilight]

All systems can be evaded, but at a cost. At the minimum, there is a considerable time and social investment involved, and often not trivial intellectual effort.

In times of relative prosperity, there is nothing to be gained from such activity. During an economic boom, few people go through the trouble of dodging cigarette duties for example, because it offers insufficient return on effort expended.

But when you and everyone else is unemployed, that changes the analysis. Activities once unattractive from a trouble/reward point of view, compare favourably with diminishing alternatives.

We are all cheaters some of the time, but society hangs together because most of the time we do not need to resort to cheating to look after our needs and desires. This has not been the case everywhere in the world. Look elsewhere to see how society hangs together where cheating is necessary to survival.

[mididoctors]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Twilight', '
')Rationing requires widespread social consent to be effective. People only give this willingly when they have some assurance that this requirement is both extraordinary and temporarily imposed. Call it, giving the authorities the benefit of the doubt. It doesn't last forever. There can be no expectation of indefinite compliance, whatever coercion and restrictions are applied.

[mididoctors]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Twilight', 'A')ll systems can be evaded, but at a cost. At the minimum, there is a considerable time and social investment involved, and often not trivial intellectual effort.

In times of relative prosperity, there is nothing to be gained from such activity. During an economic boom, few people go through the trouble of dodging cigarette duties for example, because it offers insufficient return on effort expended.

But when you and everyone else is unemployed, that changes the analysis. Activities once unattractive from a trouble/reward point of view, compare favourably with diminishing alternatives.

We are all cheaters some of the time, but society hangs together because most of the time we do not need to resort to cheating to look after our needs and desires. This has not been the case everywhere in the world. Look elsewhere to see how society hangs together where cheating is necessary to survival.

[Twilight]

I get your point, but you understand that there would be enormous pressure for governments to get it right first time and deliver the necessary changes on an acceptable timescale.

And people need to understand the need. Why did rationing work? I think bombs falling on your head tend to focus the mind. It worked then, because the necessity was undeniable. It was in your face. It was killing people you knew. Looking around me today, I wonder what would need to transpire to snap people out of their comfort and complacency, and start thinking about sacrifice and the wider national interest. I don't think a conventional economic crisis will do the trick. Nothing less than an existential threat with full physical manifestation may be required. At least, we know that's what worked in the past.

Rationing continued in the UK into the 1950s, yes, but then so did the black markets. Faced with a long emergency, people adapted to the system, and those with the means were able to secure access to more of what they needed. But it is a sad comment on the pre-war state of affairs that egalitarian distribution of the basics, even subject to black market distortion, raised the physical well-being of the poorest during this time.

I wonder what will happen next time. The UK is certainly not the same society it was then. Extended rationing by the state may produce very different results.

[mididoctors]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Twilight', 'I') get your point, but you understand that there would be enormous pressure for governments to get it right first time and deliver the necessary changes on an acceptable timescale.

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Twilight', '
')Rationing continued in the UK into the 1950s, yes, but then so did the black markets. Faced with a long emergency, people adapted to the system, and those with the means were able to secure access to more of what they needed. But it is a sad comment on the pre-war state of affairs that egalitarian distribution of the basics, even subject to black market distortion, raised the physical well-being of the poorest during this time.

I wonder what will happen next time. The UK is certainly not the same society it was then. Extended rationing by the state may produce very different results.

[gg3]

The criminality problem is this:

First of all, in the 1940s and 50s, there was not a universal communications infrastructure as there is today: the velocity of information through society was far slower. Thus the development of criminal enterprises was also slower.

Second, there is a difference between low-level informal circumvention, and organized crime. Organized crime thrives on bottlenecks: thus it is more interested in heroin and cocaine (must be imported via smuggling) than in marijuana (anyone can grow it).

Informal circumvention can and will occur immediately at the beginning of any rationing system: for example Bob's friend Bert runs the local gas station and will sneak him a few extra gallons under the table in exchange for some of Bob's homebrewed beer.

Organized crime takes time to develop, and requires predictable legal and market conditions. Thus the longer the period of rationing, the longer the timeframe for organized crime to plan and operate and gather influence. Would you invest in counterfeiting of ration coupons if you knew that rationing would only go on for one year?

In contrast, continual escalation of vehicle efficiency standards, and commensurate escalation of fuel taxes, are much more difficult measures for organized crime to penetrate. Liquid fuels are more difficult to procure and distribute and sell on a tax-cheating basis than are cigarettes or other high-tax commodities. Tax evasion is a purely financial crime that, unlike counterfeiting of ration books, does not produce the immediate impression that your neighbor is getting more than his/her fair share of a scarce physical resource by cheating.

[mididoctors]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'T')he criminality problem is this:

First of all, in the 1940s and 50s, there was not a universal communications infrastructure as there is today: the velocity of information through society was far slower. Thus the development of criminal enterprises was also slower.

Second, there is a difference between low-level informal circumvention, and organized crime. Organized crime thrives on bottlenecks: thus it is more interested in heroin and cocaine (must be imported via smuggling) than in marijuana (anyone can grow it).

Informal circumvention can and will occur immediately at the beginning of any rationing system: for example Bob's friend Bert runs the local gas station and will sneak him a few extra gallons under the table in exchange for some of Bob's homebrewed beer.

Organized crime takes time to develop, and requires predictable legal and market conditions. Thus the longer the period of rationing, the longer the timeframe for organized crime to plan and operate and gather influence. Would you invest in counterfeiting of ration coupons if you knew that rationing would only go on for one year?