[gpws]

Guys and girls, there are not to many days and years left until the grid goes down and we in 90% pop dieoff and stone age forever.

Having said that, I gets straight to the point.

The REAL problem of the mother of all problems:

What/How/why is the essence and core being of the totality of all existence/reality/'IT'?

What is the deepest underlying fabric/domain/essence of reality/existence? and HOW does it work, and WHY is it the way it is?

PO is the big picture. But we still haven't found the biggest picture of all. Let define the ultimate question in order to solve the ultimate mystery!!

To start off,

maybe descartes was wrong and I think does not equal therefore I am. Maybe like the ZERO ONTOLOGY says, NOTHING EXISTS AT ALL!, Despite it all, simply said, NOTHING IS REAL. There is no problem or solution!

Or maybe the def. of nothing is the one used at nothing.com

We start, then, with nothing, pure zero. But this is not the nothing of negation. For not means other than, and other is merely a synonym of the ordinal numeral second. As such it implies a first; while the present pure zero is prior to every first. The nothing of negation is the nothing of death, which comes second to, or after, everything. But this pure zero is the nothing of not having been born. There is no individual thing, no compulsion, outward nor inward, no law. It is the germinal nothing, in which the whole universe is involved or foreshadowed. As such, it is absolutely undefined and unlimited possibility -- boundless possibility. There is no compulsion and no law. It is boundless freedom.

so from this initial default 'nothing' whic is unbounded and limiteless in possibilites , anything can happen 'inside' this nothing, and we are IT.

Or maybe simulatanoesuly NOTHING *AND* something exists superpositionally at the same time! and the border or boundary between something & nothing exists in the mathematical 'imaginary' realm/domain. So all three, NOTHING (0),
something (1) and the border (i) "exist(s)" at ONCE all at the same time. such is

0i1 (no you PO people are seeing an illusion, its not OIL, its ZERO/+Imaginary/+One)

This is perhaps the true nature of the essence of reality?? Like the mandelbrot set, it exists, but yet it doesn't really. We are, but we are not.

That's kinda like nonduality that eastern mystics teach. Nothing but awareness. Microconciousness is all there is and physical realm is a subdomain within the grand totality of the reality out there. Physical world as we know it is nothing but the pure ephiphenomenal quilia awareness microconiousness manifested through abstract platonic mathematical encoding.

That is also like the Bible says God's will is the live THROUGH man, to express his divinity using man as the vessel. Awareness is like pure white light (God), the light of a project by itself projects nothing (everything) without the film, the film/substrate is the mathematical incoding (physical world/film/man) and by combining both man and god, film and light, awareness/quilia and mandelbrot we get the seemingly contradictory, paradoxicial, mysterious reality that we have come to know....?? could it be?

What is 'IT'? Can it be felt? Or can be breathe life to an equation through 'IT'? Or is it like Godel said, since we are in the reality itself, we can't be pure absolute and cannot come out of the absolute to see the truth?

Anyone have any ideas?

http://www.hedweb.com/nihilism/nihilf01.htm
http://www.everythingforever.com/
http://consc.net/papers/facing.html
http://nonduality.info/awareness.html
http://www.hedweb.com/witherall/zero.htm
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/other/jjleeuw6.htm

There can never be freedom for the relative, since every relative thing is at least partially determined by all else that is relative. Only the Absolute is free since there is naught beside It. There is no interaction between the Absolute and the relative; the relative thing can only be related to other relative things. Relation denotes relativity, and the Absolute has no relation to anything because It is all things. Its only relation to the relative is that the relative as a whole is the Absolute, but there is never the possibility of a relation between *a* relative thing or being and the Absolute.

Since there is no relation between the relative and the Absolute, except in so far as the Absolute is the relative in its entirety, we are no longer the relative when we realize the Absolute, that is to say we are no longer 'we' or 'I' when we are That. That is why in Buddhism the realization of the Absolute is called Nirvana, literally the 'going out' or 'becoming extinct,' since from the standpoint of the separate self it means the end of all things, though from the standpoint of reality it means the beginning of all things. Nirvana is the extinction of the craving to be the relative thing and thereby the extinction of the relative as such in the realization of the Absolute. We are as justified to say that *we become the Absolute*, that the dewdrop becomes the shining sea, as we are in saying that the dewdrop is lost when slipping into the sea, that *we are annihilated when realizing the Absolute.* It will ever be impossible to express reality in the language of our world-image.

The philosophical mystic does not speak much of a hierarchy of ever greater and greater beings, for him there is but one goal, one achievement - The Absolute. That is the God of the philosophical mystic, a God who is not Creator of the universe but who is eternally all universes, a God to whom no man can pray, but whom we *are* when we reach Reality. To Him no adoration can ascend, from Him no benediction descends to man. He is unchanging eternal Peace, the Alone beyond which naught is. This eternal Peace of the Absolute is the Buddhist Nirvana; Nirvana, as taught by the Buddha, is not the evolution into greater power and knowledge, but the passing out of evolution into an Eternal in which is no suffering, no unsatisfied craving because there is no separateness, no 'I,' no possibility of incompleteness. Nirvana thus is not a crowning glory in an ascending scale of ever increasing divine experiences, it is the radical and fundamental departure from all that is relative into the Absolute.

[RonMN]

I'm not trying to "dis" you...

But...did Pa Ingals worry about what the "core" reason of life was?

No...He just struggled for him & his family to survive. That is all.

Gpws Wrote:

What is the deepest underlying fabric/domain/essence of reality/existence? and HOW does it work, and WHY is it the way it is?

Best answer I can come up with...is we have it too easy...we don't have to struggle as much...therefore we've become incredibily lazy.

What do you think of a young kid who can't LIVE without his iPOD?

[gpws]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RonMN', '
')
Best answer I can come up with...is we have it too easy...we don't have to struggle as much...therefore we've become incredibily lazy.

What do you think of a young kid who can't LIVE without his iPOD?

[RonMN]

I get what you are saying also...I just wish i could find the words...

When I was very young (4 or 5) I had a major mental delema over whther or not reality was real...or was it all a figment of my imagination?

Now being 4 or 5 I didn't have the vocabulary to express this idea...so I figured it out for myself.

I finaly thought (after long debate with myself) that IF reality wasn't real...there was a reason i shouldn't know about it (yet).

The adult Ronald has never re-addresed that question...

Maybe I should...(best way i can put it into words at this moment).

[gpws]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RonMN', 'I')'m not trying to "dis" you...

But...did Pa Ingals worry about what the "core" reason of life was?

[gpws]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RonMN', 'I') get what you are saying also...I just wish i could find the words...

When I was very young (4 or 5) I had a major mental delema over whther or not reality was real...or was it all a figment of my imagination?

Now being 4 or 5 I didn't have the vocabulary to express this idea...so I figured it out for myself.

I finaly thought (after long debate with myself) that IF reality wasn't real...there was a reason i shouldn't know about it (yet).

The adult Ronald has never re-addresed that question...

Maybe I should...(best way i can put it into words at this moment).

[lateralus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gpws', '
')
What/How/why is the essence and core being of the totality of all existence/reality/'IT'?

What is the deepest underlying fabric/domain/essence of reality/existence? and HOW does it work, and WHY is it the way it is?

[Commanding_Heights]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gpws', ' ')

Anyone have any ideas?

http://www.hedweb.com/nihilism/nihilf01.htm

[RonMN]

There are many things that I KNOW to be real...although I have no means of proving them (nor do I care to try).

I KNOW: that God exists!

I KNOW: There is a place/time/space that large & small become as one and equal.

You Wrote:
If illusion resides within reality, then what is the purpose of such an illusion?

I KNOW: we CHOSE this existance & continue to choose it!

For what purpose? I haven't a clue.

That's my $0.02

[americandream]

Yes...but you're looking for purpose which is a time/space construct. From here to there.

[cestlavie]

Consider who we are to be a "world"- the totality of all our thoughts, feelings, fears, hopes, dreams, personality, logic, artistic talent, loves, appreciations, etc. I substituted the word "island" below with "world", and the word "circle" with "sphere". Tom Brown lived alone in the wildest places so his definition of "life away from earth" essentially is living in society to its fullest. We don't have TV in our house, but I guess if I did, I (ok, we) would be living life in society "to its fullest". Anyways, enough rambling...
-------------------
Tom Brown Jr, Awakening Spirits, page 101
"Man is like a world, a sphere within spheres. Man is separated from those outer spheres by his mind, his beliefs, and the limitations put on him by a life away from Earth. The sphere of man, the world of self is the place of logic, the 'I', the ego, and the physical self. That is the world that man has chosed to live within today, and in so doing so he has created a prison for himself. The walls of the world prison are thick, made up of doubts, logic, and lack of belief. His isolation from his greater circles of self is suffocating and prevents him from seeing life clearly and purely. It is a world of ignorance where the flesh is the only reality, the only god."
Grandfather continued, "Beyond mans island of ego, his prison, lies the world of the spirit-that-moves-within-all-things, the force that is found in all things. It is a world that communicates to all entities of Creation and touches the Creator. It is a circle of life that houses all mans instinct, his deepest memory, his power to control his body and mind, and a bridge that helps man transcend flesh. It is a world that expands mans universe and helps him to fuse himself to the earth. Most of all, it is a world that brings man to his higher self and to spiritual rapture".

....."modern thought is the prison of the soul and stands between man and his spiritual mind. The logical mind cannot know absolute faith, nor can it know pure thought, for logic feeds upon logic and does not accept things that cannot be known and proved by flesh. Thus man has created a prison for himself and his spirit, because he lacks beleif and purity of thought. Faith needs no proof nor logic, yet man needs proof before he can have faith. Man then has created a cycle which cannot be broken, for if proof is needed, there can be no faith."
-----------------------
My (just turned) 2.5 year old son absolutely cracks up at the simplest things in life. He is like a miracle, sees things purely without distraction, and gets the greatest enjoyment from the simplest things. It is only when we get older that we lose the flair, the enthusiasm for life, the vitality, and beauty of all things new and natural. It is then that we get "old" and seek for better answers. I think therefore I am becomes predominate in our search and then we never find what we are looking for. For example, the truth is very self evident to many people, in the beauty of a flower, or the rays of the sunshine. It is just we often are one who never care to look. And we miss out on all the beauty, the simplicity of life. Once we understand the beauty, the simplicity then we start to understand the majesty of it all, and then that is when we are "deserving" to see the big picture. Take it from me, I have "been there" but then I have not, too entrenched in reality I guess... :>

I hope I have helped in the least... I recommend and have found deep solace in Tom Browns books. It puts some sense in the insanity now happening on the earth and at the least gives a really good perspective on things from higher up, why they are happening, why we see the way we see things, fundamentally, it gets down to things on the most basic level. I am the most at fault, being a computer programmer, but then I see the beauty, the logic at the most basic fundamental level and then my eyes light up. Ok, I'm a geek (in the past, awright?, puhleeze!) but the only way to truly understand and appreciate all the components is to understand all the details. Life is truly beautiful, it really pains me so that we are so intent on destroying it. Although life is a pattern of destruction and regeneration, destruction and regeneration, the seasons come and go, and this too shall pass. In the end we are all figments of our imagination, and grains of sand on an infinite beach... I wish I had time to watch the waves wash on the shore...

[aldente]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gpws', 'L')ike the mandelbrot set, it exists, but yet it doesn't really.

[entropyfails]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gpws', '
')What/How/why is the essence and core being of the totality of all existence/reality/'IT'?

What is the deepest underlying fabric/domain/essence of reality/existence? and HOW does it work, and WHY is it the way it is?

[keehah]

On Industrial Disease: Philosophy is useless theology is worse -Dire Straights

Hard truth: The Spirit in the Gene
"We fall for the false beliefs most of the time, because humans have a split brain, with "two spheres of awareness available to us, with two entirely separate behaviour control systems, one rational and one entirely non-rational.... ". Unfortunately for the human species " ... the rational brain should be viewed, not as the principal generator of behaviour and the pivot on which the species turns, but as an optional extra designed to be switched off the moment any serious evolutionary matters, such as genetic survival or propagation, arise."

Denial or Today's best tool?: ECOPSYCHOLOGY The core of the mind is the ecological unconscious. http://ecopsychology.athabascau.ca/Final/intro.htm
http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC34/Roszak.htm

[oowolf]

"It is vital to have a constant awareness or habitual feeling that our formulation of a situation is not the situation itself. The structure of our statements about things is not necessarily the way things are."

Alfred Korzybski

[lateralus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('keehah', '
')Denial or Today's best tool?: ECOPSYCHOLOGY The core of the mind is the ecological unconscious.

[keehah]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t has been argued that the 'litmus test' of deep ecology is die-off.

[lateralus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('keehah', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t has been argued that the 'litmus test' of deep ecology is die-off.

[gpws]

Commanding_Heights, I can understand exactly what you are saying and the point you are trying to get across, however YOU do not have sufficient understanding of the problem I am talking about, or you won't have used that irrelevant 'hammer' analogy.

Maybe you should understand the context of what I am talking about before opening thy mouth.

RonMN, we choose this illusion and continue to choose it you say?
But since we do not grasp the totality of existence and the deepest reality, then are WE not part of the illusion that exists within the absolute reality? What you really mean is We ARE the illusion. Why would reality CHOOSE to fool itself?? To play hide and seek because it is bored of the infinite eternal nothingness??

Put it another way, can and/or do CONTRADICTIONS themselves inherently 'exists' even within the mathematical or outside of that domain? Or there an explaination space or 'existence' space for contradictions and negations that classically 'do not exists'?


albente, who is she the surrounding enviroment you are talking of? Mother nature, the physical, metaphysical , what??
Please be more specific, the riddle is confusing. Who is the Old man?

entropyfails, how do you know for sure there is an 'world out there' at all? If you assume there is a mental and physical 'worlds',
then by that assumption you concede that your own knowledge and contact with the physical world out there must come through the confines of the mental world. Then for you, for all intents and purposes, isn't there nothing but the mental world?? What if there was no such thing as a distinction between mental and physical and it was all 'one' holistic nondual entity? How would you know otherwise?

keehah, does anything exists at all? If so, what?
I am not trying to solve the meaning of life, I am pondering the contradiction of existential existence itself....

lateralus, you going into the realm of evolutionary darwinism, physical biology, etc. Nothing wrong with that, but its not the ultimate mystery.

[Zardoz]

Of all the countless forms of life that have arisen on this planet, only we are capable of contemplating the meaning of our existence.

What a curse. What a burden.

Eventually, that capability will lead to our undoing.