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Focussing on abundance? Huh??

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Focussing on abundance? Huh??

Unread postby threadbear » Thu 22 Mar 2007, 14:32:22

Has anyone read the book, or seen the film, "The Secret"? If so, what do you think?
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Re: Focussing on abundance? Huh??

Unread postby Eli » Thu 22 Mar 2007, 14:46:41

I have not read it but have heard enough about it to safely say that as a whole it is complete crap.

It is pseudo religious prosperity Gospel.

Thread you know why you are poor and do not have a lot of money?

It is because your thinking within yourself is blocking money form coming to you.

Under the current circumstances the tripe this book spouts is dangerous.
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Re: Focussing on abundance? Huh??

Unread postby threadbear » Thu 22 Mar 2007, 15:54:28

What's particularly toxic about it, to my mind, is it manages to take the really wondrous and curious inexplicables in our lives and twist them into metaphysical axioms with a solid scientific base. They've taken the awe out of awesome, reducing it to "some", followed by "more"

I shudder to think how many people are praying for bigger, better, more, and permitting themselves to think ONLY good thoughts when the world is already almost completely ruined by knobs from the G8 countries demanding their share, and everyone else's. Truly pathetic.
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Re: Focussing on abundance? Huh??

Unread postby Ludi » Thu 22 Mar 2007, 16:12:26

"If wishes were horses then beggars would ride."
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Re: Focussing on abundance? Huh??

Unread postby TWilliam » Fri 23 Mar 2007, 15:03:16

On the other hand, the same principles seemed to work pretty well for people like Carnegie, Ford, Edison, Rockefeller etc.

Read Napleon Hill's classic Think and Grow Rich sometime...

That said, the one glaring deficiency I saw in The Secret was that it completely glossed over the most vital element of the process of creating one's life as desired. It referred merely to "bringing oneself into 'alignment' with one's desires", which is a very euphemistic way of saying "get off your @ss and take action toward achieving them".

Basically a very superficial treatment of what are otherwise deeply significant ideas regarding human fulfillment. I too found the primarily materialistic focus irritating...
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Re: Focussing on abundance? Huh??

Unread postby threadbear » Fri 23 Mar 2007, 15:16:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'O')n the other hand, the same principles seemed to work pretty well for people like Carnegie, Ford, Edison, Rockefeller etc.

Read Napleon Hill's classic Think and Grow Rich sometime...

That said, the one glaring deficiency I saw in The Secret was that it completely glossed over the most vital element of the process of creating one's life as desired. It referred merely to "bringing oneself into 'alignment' with one's desires", which is a very euphemistic way of saying "get off your @ss and take action toward achieving them".

Basically a very superficial treatment of what are otherwise deeply significant ideas regarding human fulfillment. I too found the primarily materialistic focus irritating...


All the most compelling disinformation carries within it the most positive, uplifting, hopeful and loving. The Secret is no differerent. Look at all the beauty, mystery, and love in the Christian religion. Unfortunately it comes bundled with all sorts of garbage.
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Re: Focussing on abundance? Huh??

Unread postby TWilliam » Fri 23 Mar 2007, 15:17:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'T')hread you know why you are poor and do not have a lot of money?

It is because your thinking within yourself is blocking money form coming to you.


Under the current circumstances the tripe this book spouts is dangerous.


So, exactly how wealthy are you anyway Eli?

Personally, I would be more inclined to accept the opinion of someone who is wealthy over the opinion of someone who is not, if wealth was what I desired. And the fact is that the idea which you belittle is a fundamental tenet of thinking amongst those who have become wealthy. Tho' of course, there is more to the story... :wink:
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Re: Focussing on abundance? Huh??

Unread postby TWilliam » Fri 23 Mar 2007, 15:29:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'A')ll the most compelling disinformation carries within it the most positive, uplifting, hopeful and loving. The Secret is no differerent.


That's the trouble with this film. It does, in fact, speak truth. But, and this is a very significant but, it does so in a way that makes it seem completely easy and effortless to attain whatever one desires, when it is neither.

Again, read Napoleon's book. He outlines very specific steps for applying "the secret", but believe me, although they are simple, they are far from easy and effortless. Which is precisely why so few succeed...
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Re: Focussing on abundance? Huh??

Unread postby PrairieMule » Fri 23 Mar 2007, 15:43:44

I think visualization gives us the direction for what we want in life but with out hard work, a bit of smarts, and a thick hide you will never bridge the gap between here and there. From what I understand about this book, it seems to gloss over that crucial second part of the equation.
If you give a man a fish you will have kept him from hunger for a day. If you teach a man to fish he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
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Re: Focussing on abundance? Huh??

Unread postby threadbear » Fri 23 Mar 2007, 15:44:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'T')hread you know why you are poor and do not have a lot of money?

It is because your thinking within yourself is blocking money form coming to you.


Under the current circumstances the tripe this book spouts is dangerous.


So, exactly how wealthy are you anyway Eli?

Personally, I would be more inclined to accept the opinion of someone who is wealthy over the opinion of someone who is not, if wealth was what I desired. And the fact is that the idea which you belittle is a fundamental tenet of thinking amongst those who have become wealthy. Tho' of course, there is more to the story... :wink:


By most people's standards, I'm considered materially wealthy. Where other people seem to have a series or sequence of bad luck and bad timing, I've been blessed with being in the right place at the right time, repeatedly. I glide from one golden horse shoe to the next, in this regard. Life seems like a never ending series of accomodations for me, a conspiracy designed for my benefit.

I pray, but never for more. I pray for an end to the ceaseless barrage of propaganda that people expose themselves to and the generalizations that may work for me, but won't necessarily work for them.

If they are whining complaining "victims", they are stuck in a repetetive pattern, not necessarily due to their own failing, but due to the fact that noone has ever really listened to their unique situation. Noone has taken the time to behold them, to give them more than a cursory glance.

If you want to help people, don't preach about what they should be, or how they should think. Behold them, use empathy, take time. Let the light of individuation flow through yourself to them. Respect them. Use Maybe-logic. (see Robert Anton Wilson)
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Re: Focussing on abundance? Huh??

Unread postby TWilliam » Fri 23 Mar 2007, 15:58:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'B')y most people's standards, etc. etc. ...


Thank you for sharing a bit of that "more" threadbear... :)

One thing I would add is that "luck" is not only a matter of being "in the right place at the right time". It also requires a mindset that can both see opportunities when they present themselves, and act with courage and conviction to take advantage of them...
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Re: Focussing on abundance? Huh??

Unread postby threadbear » Fri 23 Mar 2007, 17:34:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'B')y most people's standards, etc. etc. ...


Thank you for sharing a bit of that "more" threadbear... :)

One thing I would add is that "luck" is not only a matter of being "in the right place at the right time". It also requires a mindset that can both see opportunities when they present themselves, and act with courage and conviction to take advantage of them...


Thanks Twilliam. But I see it a little differently. If anything has lifted burdens, it's the realization that I'm not the author of my own destiny. I feel like a contributing writer in a screen play that I have limited control over. I had a monumentally horrifying adolescance and earlyadulthood and at the time, considered it, "all my fault". Of course I co-authored that screamplay, but I WAS also a victim of circumstance. Most people tend to blame themselves too much, when they should ease up on themselves AND others. Compassion is absolutely key.

I'm still working on my temper. I can be a real beast when I'm angry. Not mean, just goddawfully cranky and snarky.

Now it's your turn--How is your life going and to what do you attribute your success/failure? What part of the Secret has actually worked for you?
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Re: Focussing on abundance? Huh??

Unread postby TWilliam » Fri 23 Mar 2007, 18:39:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'T')hanks Twilliam. But I see it a little differently. If anything has lifted burdens, it's the realization that I'm not the author of my own destiny. I feel like a contributing writer in a screen play that I have limited control over. I had a monumentally horrifying adolescance and earlyadulthood and at the time, considered it, "all my fault". Of course I co-authored that screamplay, but I WAS also a victim of circumstance. Most people tend to blame themselves too much, when they should ease up on themselves AND others. Compassion is absolutely key.

I'm still working on my temper. I can be a real beast when I'm angry. Not mean, just goddawfully cranky and snarky.

Now it's your turn--How is your life going and to what do you attribute your success/failure? What part of the Secret has actually worked for you?


I agree threadbear that we may have little control over the circumstances that arise in our lives.

One of the things that I believe is often misunderstood with regard to the various schools of thought regarding "self-determination" is that they are not so much saying that we control the circumstances of our lives/destinies in an outward, physical sense. Rather, what we do have absolute control over is how we choose to respond to those circumstances. And those choices determine whether we consign ourselves to being a victim of the vicissitudes of fate or persevere in pursuing our dreams in spite of them. That, imo, is the type of mastery referred to when they speak of being "master of one's destiny".

And yet I find it interesting that another common trait of people that consider themselves truly successful is that they accept 100% responsibility for everything that occurs in their lives, negative as well as positive. A different perspective than blaming oneself I suspect; one that is a function of maturity, so of course we tend to see ourselves as victims to outside events, rather than authors of our experience, until we grow into a broader perspective.

Regarding my own life... well now... success/failure are certainly relative things, wouldn't you agree? If you're measuring based on the capitalist "American Dream" yardstick, I would most likely not be considered "successful", which I have no problem with as acquisition for it's own sake has never been a motivating force in my life. But there are less tangible scales on which I would consider myself quite successful. The key element for me is that I accept full responsibility for my life as it is, which I suppose one could say is "the part of 'The Secret' that works" for me (hardly a revelation; the film's fundamental premise is something I've understood for years).
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Re: Focussing on abundance? Huh??

Unread postby threadbear » Fri 23 Mar 2007, 19:45:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'T')hanks Twilliam. But I see it a little differently. If anything has lifted burdens, it's the realization that I'm not the author of my own destiny. I feel like a contributing writer in a screen play that I have limited control over. I had a monumentally horrifying adolescance and earlyadulthood and at the time, considered it, "all my fault". Of course I co-authored that screamplay, but I WAS also a victim of circumstance. Most people tend to blame themselves too much, when they should ease up on themselves AND others. Compassion is absolutely key.

I'm still working on my temper. I can be a real beast when I'm angry. Not mean, just goddawfully cranky and snarky.

Now it's your turn--How is your life going and to what do you attribute your success/failure? What part of the Secret has actually worked for you?


I agree threadbear that we may have little control over the circumstances that arise in our lives.

One of the things that I believe is often misunderstood with regard to the various schools of thought regarding "self-determination" is that they are not so much saying that we control the circumstances of our lives/destinies in an outward, physical sense. Rather, what we do have absolute control over is how we choose to respond to those circumstances. And those choices determine whether we consign ourselves to being a victim of the vicissitudes of fate or persevere in pursuing our dreams in spite of them. That, imo, is the type of mastery referred to when they speak of being "master of one's destiny".

And yet I find it interesting that another common trait of people that consider themselves truly successful is that they accept 100% responsibility for everything that occurs in their lives, negative as well as positive. A different perspective than blaming oneself I suspect; one that is a function of maturity, so of course we tend to see ourselves as victims to outside events, rather than authors of our experience, until we grow into a broader perspective.
.


You brought up a good point. Controlling your attitude, or shaping it. This advice can be used as a weird weapon to control others, too, though. The focus on controlling attitude gives the offending party in any dispute the ability to counter with, "it's not my obnoxious behaviour that's a problem, it's your inability to control your attitude to it, that's a problem". I went through this dynamic recently with someone, and everytime I think about it, I nearly pop an artery.

Otherwise I agree with you that you can exert a certain amount of control over how you view negative random events. But this kind of reasoning in interpersonal disputes provides a way for passive aggressive types to drive others completely batty.

Successful people often do take 100% responsibility for their failures and successes. Do you mean financially successful people? If they do, they're a bit deluded.

I measure my success by how little I spend on myself. If I'm shopping and I spend what I think is too much, I feel defeated, as if I have lost a kind of spiritual battle. Hopefully this is how people will view success in the future. It may be imposed on them, in many cases, by a rapidly shifting economic scenario.

Anyone who views accumulating wealth as a very important measure of success doesn't appreciate how easy it can be. Dealing successfully with people is the most demanding complex frustrating business. I think many people are under the impression that it's the other way around. If people knew how easy it is to make money, for those who already have it, they wouldn't be so impressed with it.

It doesn't take any kind of spiritual anything. You just have to be open to opportunities that present themselves. It doesn't take courage, it doesn't take conviction. It takes zero in the way of positive character traits. People should applaud themselves for the grim work of being born human and understand that all the Horatio Alger rags to riches stories are myths, and always have been. Truth is, a lot of "successful" people in a capitalist society, suck at being human.
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Re: Focussing on abundance? Huh??

Unread postby TWilliam » Fri 23 Mar 2007, 20:31:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'T')his advice can be used as a weird weapon to control others, too, though. The focus on controlling attitude gives the offending party in any dispute the ability to counter with, "it's not my obnoxious behaviour that's a problem, it's your inability to control your attitude to it, that's a problem". I went through this dynamic recently with someone, and everytime I think about it, I nearly pop an artery.

Oh I hear ya, believe me; I've had plenty of experience with the type you describe, tho' I think the way you frame it is a bit disingenuous. In the particular example you give, it is still my responsibility as to how I respond. That's not to say that an appropriate response might not be a ball bat upside said offender's head... :lol:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut this kind of reasoning in interpersonal disputes provides a way for passive aggressive types to drive others completely batty.

Sure it does. If we let it... :wink:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')o you mean financially successful people?

Not specifically, no. "Financial success" is only one possible aspect of what I consider successful. I see it as neither an essential nor for that matter definitive aspect however...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') measure my success by how little I spend on myself. If I'm shopping and I spend what I think is too much, I feel defeated, as if I have lost a kind of spiritual battle.

Interesting that you mention this. Tho' I've never thought of it in quite those terms, I have always noticed that I feel less comfortable spending money on myself than I do on others...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')ealing successfully with people is the most demanding complex frustrating business.
Indeed.
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Re: Focussing on abundance? Huh??

Unread postby threadbear » Fri 23 Mar 2007, 20:40:50

I always thought the ultimate nightmare, TWilliams, would be to marry a psychologist, for the reasons we've been talking about. Can you imagine having a dispute with someone who could pathologize your every statement and action? Shudder. 8O
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Re: Focussing on abundance? Huh??

Unread postby TWilliam » Fri 23 Mar 2007, 21:43:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I') always thought the ultimate nightmare, TWilliams, would be to marry a psychologist, for the reasons we've been talking about. Can you imagine having a dispute with someone who could pathologize your every statement and action? Shudder. 8O


Sounds like a movie. A scary one... :lol:
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Global pessimism amid plenty

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 03 Mar 2018, 01:08:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')
By Michael Spence/Milan A few years ago, I wrote a book called The Next Convergence, about how developing economies were “catching up” to their advanced counterparts in terms of income, wealth, health, and other measures of well-being. I looked not just at how these countries had achieved rapid growth – including the central role played by an open global economy – but also at the opportunities and challenges this process of convergence would bring. In writing the book, I had planned to include a lot of data in visual form. But a respected literary agent told me that using graphs was a bad idea, because only a small share of people absorb quantitative information better when it is presented visually. I came to realise that graphs are, in a sense, answers to questions. If you don’t pose a question, a graph is


Global pessimism amid plenty
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