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Credit: Moral Issues (merged)

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Nature, Morals & Happiness

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Fri 02 Mar 2007, 20:59:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grifter', 'I')

He loves the woman he feels takes over him, so thinks he hates her.

He consistently tries to have sex with a woman he subconciously despises.

In the end he discovers he is an infinitesimal spec of flesh, wondering about the vastness of it all.
yes, isn't literature grand? bless those with the ability to put our hearts into words. I'm glad to see this thread take a better turn.
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Re: Nature, Morals & Happiness

Unread postby Narz » Sat 03 Mar 2007, 00:29:36

Hi PMS. I plan to, like NEOPO, have as many women as I can feed and emotionally nurture (so they won't run away, bisexuals would be ideal of course). Maybe shared with a buddy or two (need at least a few men for heavy lifting and whatnot 'till my 101 sons grow up. :lol:
“Seek simplicity but distrust it”
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Re: Nature, Morals & Happiness

Unread postby JustWatch » Sat 03 Mar 2007, 02:09:15

Hi Penultimate,
I don’t think I’ve ever read Chesapeake but I have read The Scarlet Letter. That was in high school! I don’t remember it much. When you quoted Einstein I got the thought that I knew a quote that came from him, but on looking for it I couldn’t find it. Maybe it was from someone else. It dealt with discovering secrets or mysteries of science during quiet moments, and not while thinking.

Here’s some quote’s of Einstein I picked out. He sure has a lot of them. I got them from BrainyQuote.com-

A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.

Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves.

Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.

He who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead; his eyes are closed.

How I wish that somewhere there existed an island for those who are wise and of goodwill! In such a place even I would be an ardent patriot.

I never think of the future - it comes soon enough.

I think and think for months and years. Ninety-nine times, the conclusion is false. The hundredth time I am right.

I want to know all Gods thoughts; all the rest are just details.

If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.

Keep on sowing your seed, for you never know which will grow - perhaps it all will.

Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile.

That deep emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God.

The fear of death is the most unjustified of all fears, for there's no risk of accident for someone who's dead.

The value of a man should be seen in what he gives and not in what he is able to receive.

The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.

We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality.


Without deep reflection one knows from daily life that one exists for other people.
*****

(Here are some I thought were pretty funny.)

I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference!

If A equals success, then the formula is: A = X + Y + Z, X is work. Y is play. Z is keep your mouth shut.

If I had only known, I would have been a locksmith.

If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?

When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein

:)
They understand the fact that true democracy is nothing but a fallacy whereby idiots are elected into power and these idiots then have to cater to the morons that elected them in the first place.
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Re: Nature, Morals & Happiness

Unread postby Aaron » Sat 03 Mar 2007, 09:01:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd off they go into a swamp.


A swamp?

Bitter much?

I mean ok... I get it... but...

A Swamp!?!

It is the rare individual who can rise above the consequences of their own attractiveness.

Being desirable for whatever reason necessarily distorts your self image. Seen through the lens of our desire of others, we seem more to ourselves than we would otherwise.

We have more value in our own eyes.

In my experience the more wealthy you are, or the more attractive you are, the less sane you tend to be. Certain exceptional individuals seem to avoid the Prosperity Trap, but most are all to willing victims in the process.

Young girls tend to be exceptional students until puberty hits... then "bang!" mysteriously grades begin dropping, speech becomes jingoistic and "sing-song".

Humble & compassionate in their relative poverty, young men become pompous asshats as they acquire financial success.

From my point of view, the more desirable you become to others, the less desirable you become to me.

Not because I'm immune to the temptation of flesh or wealth... but because I see something even more compelling.

Something most of you miss in your eternal worship of your bodies glandular secretions.

Like a fish who does not know he is swimming... most folks bask in their bodies reaction to how light & sound bounce off their surroundings, blind to the greater reality all around them.

This makes most people slaves... prisoners in a jail they can neither see nor understand.

A prison for your mind.

Your desire for physical beauty & material wealth has turned you into Pavlov's Dogs... waiting for the bell & cookie. Never understanding the greater context of your situation... The slow march of understanding & truth... The setbacks & triumphs of discovery... all this remains invisible to you in your world of bells & cookies.

This world is the veil which has been pulled over your eyes to shield you from a simple truth...

Until you choose otherwise... you are slaves.

Good lookin, wealthy slaves.
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Re: Nature, Morals & Happiness

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sat 03 Mar 2007, 14:47:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '
')eternal worship of your bodies glandular secretions.
A prison for your mind.
if only we were incorporeal. secretions, secretions & more secretions. juices secreted to digest other living matter stuffed into frontal orifices and gnawed, sent on an internal odyssey subject to further secretions and ultimate excretion from the other end of the gastrointestinal tract laden with pernicious micro organisms. other secretions to control other processes ad infinitum. Enough to make one agree with the Gnostic theory that the world was created by an evil demiurge.
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Re: Nature, Morals & Happiness

Unread postby AlCzervik » Sat 03 Mar 2007, 17:22:42

I just thought I would add this site to the discussion. I especially like all of the bashing of American women. PMS, you just need to find yourself a Spanish woman or some such type who will appreciate your depth.
http://www.nomarriage.com/
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Re: Nature, Morals & Happiness

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sat 03 Mar 2007, 17:46:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JustWatch', 'H')i Penultimate,
I have read The Scarlet Letter. That was in high school! I don’t remember it much.
heh heh, that was my point. I don't remember any of the books I was assigned to read either, and remember well the ones I picked out myself. The Scarlet Letter is one I'm reading online at the Gutenberg Project. Chesapeake I have a hard copy of and I can definitely recommend it. The Scarlet Letter has that strange allegorical quality, much like Bronte's Wuthering Heights: a sense that profound things are being pointed to that even the author is uncertain and unclear about. Deep meanings that defy analysis. No wonder that high school kids wouldn't be prepared to know what is even going on at all, beyond the surface aspects.
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Re: Nature, Morals & Happiness

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sat 03 Mar 2007, 17:55:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlCzervik', ' ')
http://www.nomarriage.com/
interesting website:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')All the older guys I know, guys that are 55 and older are telling me the same story; don't do it. It just turns to crap no matter what you do. They'd rather be independent. At best it's a tedious bore. At worst a living hell with financial ruin thrown in for good measure. The problem is that when you're young, you just naturally fall into this mind set where your whole self image is based on how women regard you, and so you spend all your money and energy trying to make yourself acceptable to them. Then later in life the shine wears off and you finally realize that you've wasted yourself on a bunch of crap.
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Re: Nature, Morals & Happiness

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sat 03 Mar 2007, 21:12:45

I remember one time when I was in Vegas looking for a whore that there was a beautiful one sitting in a bar next to me. I got to negotiations with her pimp who was behind the bar. This girl was like an ice sculpture. So pretty, so vacuous. I can only imagine what worms were creeping through her skull. A friend of mine told me that he did something like that once and got beat up by a Samoan. Anyway, I thought better of it, poor wretch that I am, and went on to Four Corners to admire the Anasazi ruins.
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Re: Nature, Morals & Happiness

Unread postby Aaron » Sun 04 Mar 2007, 09:21:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlCzervik', 'I') just thought I would add this site to the discussion. I especially like all of the bashing of American women. PMS, you just need to find yourself a Spanish woman or some such type who will appreciate your depth.
http://www.nomarriage.com/


"I don't think I'll get married again. I'll just find a woman I don't like and give her a house."
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Re: Nature, Morals & Happiness

Unread postby jboogy » Mon 05 Mar 2007, 03:44:13

2 cents PMS , find a girl that you can simply get along with for extended periods of time.If you chase and ( heaven forbid ) catch the girl that your head over heels in love with ,there's a good chance you will find unhappiness.(possessiveness and jealousy have a way of creeping in disguised as love) Start a relationship with a physically attractive woman who's crazy about you but has a personality you can't tolerate and you will also be guaranteed misery. if your lucky she won't turn psycho when you eventually break it off.Yes ,if you get married you will always wonder what the forbidden fruit tastes like on the other tree but most assuredly no matter how plump and glossy the exterior once you bite you'll find that even though that initial rush of flavor is as you'd hoped, there will always be a slightly unpleasant aftertaste that never quite leaves the mouth. Aaron , your quote about young girls describes my daughter to a tee.
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Re: Nature, Morals & Happiness

Unread postby WildRose » Mon 05 Mar 2007, 09:37:21

I'm reminded of a movie I saw many years back which examines these issues of lust vs. love very eloquently. "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" (1988) with Daniel Day-Lewis and Juliette Binoche. Have you seen it? It was quite well done, has some history in the film as well with the Soviet invasion of Prague in 1968. Anyway, whether a person opts for monogamy and love, or lust and variety, or wants to have a bit of both comes down to one's own priorities, I guess, or what you're willing to give up to have one or the other. People could easily turn this issue into an argument about morality, but what would be the point? Perhaps being truthful to oneself while avoiding hurting others is the least painful path.

Happiness? To me, it's here and now. Lately, when I enjoy an evening with my loved ones, it occurs to me that everything is perfect, just having them near.
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The morality of propping up sub-prime lenders

Unread postby Denny » Mon 13 Aug 2007, 14:01:37

We all seem to take it for granted that the reserve banks (by extension, the public money supply) come to the aid of the foolish financial institutions who lent money - "creative financing" - with so little scrutiny of the borrowers. The government did the same in the early 90's with the favings and loan companies who got into a credit squeeze.

But, by extension, why not prop up the foolish borrowers, if we can prop up the foolish lenders?

I know its not fair, I don't like the idea of helping those who have so carelessly taken on mortage debts, but I'd rather throw out a lifeline to Mr and Mrs. Jones, than to Citibank or Bank Paribus. But, it seems the Federal Reserve Bank (and its overseas sisters) favor the big guys.

I heard George Bush say last week that he was more concerned about the borrowers in this mess than the lenders. (Geez, this is the scond time this month I agreed with him, time for me to to worry.) But the actions say different.
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Re: The morality of propping up sub-prime lenders

Unread postby Eli » Mon 13 Aug 2007, 15:56:38

I am not sure if morality is the right way to frame this fiasco.


There is a word that describes these people who got sub-prime loans, the term is called "renters".

There is no need to bail out sub-prime borrowers by the very definition they have nothing to lose by walking away from their house.

They should take all their stuff out in the middle of the night and throw the keys at the front door of the Mortgage Company on the way out of town.

The moral thing would be to pass a law and seize the property and Bank accounts of every major Mortgage CEO and Hedge Fund manager in the country. Now that would be a bail out that I could get behind.
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Re: The morality of propping up sub-prime lenders

Unread postby Twilight » Mon 13 Aug 2007, 16:35:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'T')here is a word that describes these people who got sub-prime loans, the term is called "renters".

There is no need to bail out sub-prime borrowers by the very definition they have nothing to lose by walking away from their house.

Sane words spoken.

A renter pays monthly to live in a house, but with neither claim on the house nor further obligation. I know how this works, because that's me.

An owner, and I use the term loosely, has an additional obligation to pay half a million dollars (or similar). Screw ownership of the equity, because if you spent it you have no equity, in fact your equity might well be negative.

So the banks tried to convert renters into owners by tricking them into accepting the half-million dollar obligation? That's their problem.
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Re: The morality of propping up sub-prime lenders

Unread postby smiley » Mon 13 Aug 2007, 17:12:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e all seem to take it for granted that the reserve banks (by extension, the public money supply) come to the aid of the foolish financial institutions who lent money - "creative financing" - with so little scrutiny of the borrowers.


Well...... talking about morality.

There is also an odd class of people out there, this very small minority called savers. What this action is doing is to destroy the value of savings.

So forget about the government bailing out anyone. They simply create more money without creating underlying assets. In doing so these underlying assets are redistributed over the amount of money in circulation. "They" are bailing no-one out, "you" are, whether you consent or not!

If you have savings, some of the hard value these savings represent is taken from you and handed out in the form of freshly printed bills to these foolish companies.

Like Robin Hood, only they are stealing from the responsible and handing it out to the fools.
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Re: The morality of propping up sub-prime lenders

Unread postby fluffy » Tue 14 Aug 2007, 05:58:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', 'I')f you have savings, some of the hard value these savings represent is taken from you and handed out in the form of freshly printed bills to these foolish companies.

Like Robin Hood, only they are stealing from the responsible and handing it out to the fools.


Yes.. that's what financial markets are for.. A one-way casino whereby the rich get to cream a few percent off of the poor.

The whole CDO thing is a scam, effectively. Look at it like this:

(a) The market sets a high interest rate for a borrower, because that borrower is a high risk.

(b) The loan is then chopped up and sold on, but in order to make a profit, the average interest rate on this sold-on loan must be lower than the interest rate in (a).

So, effectively, between (a) and (b), someone MUST be telling porkies about the riskiness of the loan; it CANNOT work otherwise.
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Re: The morality of propping up sub-prime lenders

Unread postby evilgenius » Tue 14 Aug 2007, 11:07:26

How moral will it be when the citizenry discovers that all of the land and buildings discussed are going to the highest bidder in a rigged auction. An auction rigged to deprive the citizenry of the income to participate. The whore rolls on. This time she is eating her own children.
When it comes down to it, the people will always shout, "Free Barabbas." They love Barabbas. He's one of them. He has the same dreams. He does what they wish they could do. That other guy is more removed, more inscrutable. He makes them think. "Crucify him."
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Re: The morality of propping up sub-prime lenders

Unread postby static66 » Tue 14 Aug 2007, 19:18:02

[img]http://[/img]
A city boy, Kenny, moved to the country and bought a donkey from an old farmer for $100. The farmer agreed to deliver the donkey the next day.

The next day the farmer drove up and said, "Sorry son, but I have some bad news, the donkey died."

Kenny replied, "Well then, just give me my money back."

The farmer said, "Can't do that. I went and spent it already."

Kenny said, "OK then, just unload the donkey."

The farmer asked, "What ya gonna do with him?"

Kenny: "I'm going to raffle him off."

Farmer: "You can't raffle off a dead donkey!"

Kenny: "Sure I can. Watch me. I just won't tell anybody he is dead."

A month later the farmer met up with Kenny and asked, "What happened with that dead donkey?"

Kenny: "I raffled him off. I sold 500 tickets at two dollars a piece and made a profit of $898.00."

Farmer: "Didn't anyone complain?"

Kenny: "Just the guy who won. So I gave him his two dollars back."

Kenny grew up and eventually became the chairman of Enron.

Just thought you guys would appreciate some levity.. : )
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Re: The morality of propping up sub-prime lenders

Unread postby Chesire » Tue 14 Aug 2007, 19:53:40

If you owe the bank 10 k its your problem .

If you owe the bank 500 k its the banks problem , )
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