Most of the topics here are dedicated to a low-tech solution to peakoil. Technically it is not a solution at all, it is just an uncontrolled decline.
But it makes me wonder. Could we, with all our knowledge, devise a solution that doesn't bring us back to the stone-age. And what would that solution look like?
I personally believe it is possible to have a society which is both high in technology and extremely efficient in recourse consumption. I have given it some thought as to the measures that are needed to achieve that.
Population control. In order to obtain a manageable situation population growth must be brought under control. So no more than 2 kids per couple, period.
migration In order to cut back on transport the population of a certain region must be brought back to a level that can be supported by the surrounding lands. So 10million+ cities like Mexico City have to go, and cities that really have no business being there in the first place (like Las Vegas) too.
Densification Our way of living is not very efficient. Because we all want windows in our house that preferably overlook some green pastures, our population centers have spread out over vast areas. That has important consequences. Firstly these suburbs are occupying large stretches of arable land. Secondly the low population density requires a large amount of travel. Thirdly these free standing houses are extremely inefficient when it comes to climate control, building materials etc.
It would be much better to design a population center as a gigantic beehive as it would save us a lot of energy and yield us valuable agricultural land. Smaller agricultural communities could be set up to supply these population centers.
Please don't react with "people are never going to do that". Of course they aren't I know.
But the question is would it be possible? Because if it is we do have an element of choice in this matter. Whether we take this choice or not is then our responibility.
PeakOil is You
The high-tech post peak world
The high-tech post peak world
by smiley » Fri 23 Feb 2007, 18:44:29
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Re: The high-tech post peak world
by Jack » Fri 23 Feb 2007, 19:22:45
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', '
')But the question is would it be possible?
')But the question is would it be possible?
Sure. If either a) people developed a broad, strong consensus that the situation you outlined was the only proper way to do things or b) a government enforced it ruthlessly.
Problems come up. What is done with the third child? Forcible abortion, perhaps? What happens if the third child gets born?
Generally, the people at the top of the pyramid get windows overlooking green fields. Once, they were called princes and nobles. Later, they were called rich. These days, most people have their postage-stamp sized lot. So the masses will have to be forced back down. Since they probably won't like it, this would have to be compelled.
But yes, all of it could be done in principle.
![[smilie=new_popcornsmiley.gif]](https://udev.peakoil.com/forums/images/smilies/new_popcornsmiley.gif "new_popcornsmiley")
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Re: The high-tech post peak world
by americandream » Fri 23 Feb 2007, 22:03:48
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', 'M')ost of the topics here are dedicated to a low-tech solution to peakoil. Technically it is not a solution at all, it is just an uncontrolled decline.
But it makes me wonder. Could we, with all our knowledge, devise a solution that doesn't bring us back to the stone-age. And what would that solution look like?
I personally believe it is possible to have a society which is both high in technology and extremely efficient in recourse consumption. I have given it some thought as to the measures that are needed to achieve that.
Population control. In order to obtain a manageable situation population growth must be brought under control. So no more than 2 kids per couple, period.
migration In order to cut back on transport the population of a certain region must be brought back to a level that can be supported by the surrounding lands. So 10million+ cities like Mexico City have to go, and cities that really have no business being there in the first place (like Las Vegas) too.
Densification Our way of living is not very efficient. Because we all want windows in our house that preferably overlook some green pastures, our population centers have spread out over vast areas. That has important consequences. Firstly these suburbs are occupying large stretches of arable land. Secondly the low population density requires a large amount of travel. Thirdly these free standing houses are extremely inefficient when it comes to climate control, building materials etc.
It would be much better to design a population center as a gigantic beehive as it would save us a lot of energy and yield us valuable agricultural land. Smaller agricultural communities could be set up to supply these population centers.
Please don't react with "people are never going to do that". Of course they aren't I know.
But the question is would it be possible? Because if it is we do have an element of choice in this matter. Whether we take this choice or not is then our responibility.
But it makes me wonder. Could we, with all our knowledge, devise a solution that doesn't bring us back to the stone-age. And what would that solution look like?
I personally believe it is possible to have a society which is both high in technology and extremely efficient in recourse consumption. I have given it some thought as to the measures that are needed to achieve that.
Population control. In order to obtain a manageable situation population growth must be brought under control. So no more than 2 kids per couple, period.
migration In order to cut back on transport the population of a certain region must be brought back to a level that can be supported by the surrounding lands. So 10million+ cities like Mexico City have to go, and cities that really have no business being there in the first place (like Las Vegas) too.
Densification Our way of living is not very efficient. Because we all want windows in our house that preferably overlook some green pastures, our population centers have spread out over vast areas. That has important consequences. Firstly these suburbs are occupying large stretches of arable land. Secondly the low population density requires a large amount of travel. Thirdly these free standing houses are extremely inefficient when it comes to climate control, building materials etc.
It would be much better to design a population center as a gigantic beehive as it would save us a lot of energy and yield us valuable agricultural land. Smaller agricultural communities could be set up to supply these population centers.
Please don't react with "people are never going to do that". Of course they aren't I know.
But the question is would it be possible? Because if it is we do have an element of choice in this matter. Whether we take this choice or not is then our responibility.
Anythings possible....depends on the drone programming agenda.
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Re: The high-tech post peak world
by Baldwin » Fri 23 Feb 2007, 22:13:49
Good luck. That would be fought against tooth and nail in America. The American way of life is non-negotiable. You've basically went against the American way.
1) Americans feel entitled to as much unprotected sex as possible.
2) Americans feel entitled to live anywhere.
3) Americans feel entitled to as much of suburbia as they can lay their hands on.
1) Americans feel entitled to as much unprotected sex as possible.
2) Americans feel entitled to live anywhere.
3) Americans feel entitled to as much of suburbia as they can lay their hands on.
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Re: The high-tech post peak world
by peaknik » Sat 24 Feb 2007, 07:13:16
Re: beehive
Walden Building in Sant Just Desvern (Barcelona, Spain)
Walden Building in Sant Just Desvern (Barcelona, Spain)
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Re: The high-tech post peak world
by Ayame » Sat 24 Feb 2007, 08:31:07
Population control would be key to it working.
The only problem I can see is what is meant by high technology? Because specialised products are only available at the moment because of industrialisation which relies heavily on fossil fuel energy (mineing, smelting, temperature controlled rooms etc).
In other words you would not get any specialised technology (windmills at windfarms as they are today) without first going through energy intensive industrialisation, else you would be just be stuck using the original windmills. Personally I don't see what was wrong with using the original low-tech windmills - more renewable and easily made/repaired by joe bloggs and his family if it was required. Of course we couldn't feed everyone if we reverted to making grain by windmill
The only problem I can see is what is meant by high technology? Because specialised products are only available at the moment because of industrialisation which relies heavily on fossil fuel energy (mineing, smelting, temperature controlled rooms etc).
In other words you would not get any specialised technology (windmills at windfarms as they are today) without first going through energy intensive industrialisation, else you would be just be stuck using the original windmills. Personally I don't see what was wrong with using the original low-tech windmills - more renewable and easily made/repaired by joe bloggs and his family if it was required. Of course we couldn't feed everyone if we reverted to making grain by windmill
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Re: The high-tech post peak world
by Tanada » Sat 24 Feb 2007, 08:55:43
Now that is a cool piece of archetecture, I would love to visit a place like that and get the feel of it. It might look great and feel horrible or vice versa.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: The high-tech post peak world
by EnergyUnlimited » Sat 24 Feb 2007, 09:18:17
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Baldwin', 'G')ood luck. That would be fought against tooth and nail in America. The American way of life is non-negotiable. You've basically went against the American way.
1) Americans feel entitled to as much unprotected sex as possible.
2) Americans feel entitled to live anywhere.
3) Americans feel entitled to as much of suburbia as they can lay their hands on.
1) Americans feel entitled to as much unprotected sex as possible.
2) Americans feel entitled to live anywhere.
3) Americans feel entitled to as much of suburbia as they can lay their hands on.
You gave some reasons, why high tech, post PO new urbanism is yet another Utopia.
That will not be done for "internal innertia" reasons.
Long emergency and slow collapse towards post modern new feudal system is probably our future.
Some "high tech iselets" may initially survive here or there, either around nuke plants or hydro facilities.
Within few centuries they will also go anyway.
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