[Grifter]

We always said we didn't want kids.

I still don't want kids

Does anyone think a calm and rational argument can overcome a womans biological drive to procreate?

Personally I don't think so but hey maybe I'm wrong.

I've also read the "Wife wants kids I don't" thread but this is different. I'm pretty sure I wont change my mind about it and peak oil isn't the reason I didn't want them in the first place.

Anyone think her mind could be changed back? She's 33!

[ashurbanipal]

The whole kids issue is something that confuses me. On the one hand, the world is clearly overpopulated, and it seems very irresponsible to be adding more people. Any children born today are likely to be drafted into the bloodiest wars the world has ever seen, or forced to live a very meager existence that could make death look awfully attractive.

On the other hand, if everyone stopped having children, humanity would die out completely.

Furthermore, I think there's an argument from quality that comes into play--it's been well known for some time that the more intelligent people of the world tend to have far fewer children, as a group, than do the average folks. We might narrow things down with regard to peak oil and related topics and say that, if you've become cognizant of such issues, it's evidence that you have a genetic predisposition to avoiding myopia, a trait that, if everyone had always had it, might have led to a much better world today. So I think there's an argument to be made that peak oilers should be reproducing--it's all the other folks who shouldn't. Of course, that's not likely to happen.

But if the goal is to allow humanity to survive what's coming in a much wiser and more considered form, then clearly we need people who are able to understand the situation today to have kids

In answer to your question--that's a pretty strong drive though not every woman has it (men have it too). I wouldn't count on rational argument being persuasive.

[smiley]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he whole kids issue is something that confuses me.

[Bas]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grifter', 'A')nyone think her mind could be changed back? She's 33!

[Grifter]

Thanks guys, I don't know what the right thing to do is.

And I'm pretty philosophical about life Bas, I can see why its funny, kinda.

Kind of clutching at straws wasn't I.

[Bas]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grifter', 'T')hanks guys, I don't know what the right thing to do is.

And I'm pretty philosophical about life Bas, I can see why its funny, kinda.

Kind of clutching at straws wasn't I.

[Kingcoal]

You better get busy Grifter and quit shooting blanks or you'll find yourself divorced! I've never understood marriage without children. That's like paying taxes and not having a paying job.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'I')f she's going through that thing, which totally overwhelms any rational thought, it will put a huge strain on your relationship if you refuse...

[Narz]

Are you sure you don't want kids? When you're sixty do you think you'll be glad you didn't?

[Grifter]

It's a very nice feeling that so much concern has been expressed.

Thanks.

Am I sure I don't want kids? Well, I've never felt the need to have kids! I don't much like being around them. I didn't enjoy being a child.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou better get busy Grifter and quit shooting blanks

[threadbear]

I remember the wise words of mother of one child told me once, after her little girl was grown up. One child is more like a hobby-- two is a job. I never really got "the call", in the way most women do. Curious. I'm not a cold fish either. I just always preferred animals.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grifter', '.')..she actually said she wanted 2, a boy and a girl.

[gampy]

I think women have to deal with this issue from two fronts. One, hormonal, and biological. Two, societal pressures. The pressure to have children for a women is very strong. More so than men. It's possible that your wife's urge, or drive, or desire for children will fade.

But then again...you are fighting a tide of hormones, social pressures, and probably your wife's deep desire to be satisfied with her life.

You know, once you see your son, daughter cradled in your wife's bosom you just might change your mind. Children change people. Your priorities will change drastically, and not for the worse. Children can give you a sense of purpose that you can not get anywhere else.

I would not worry too much about the future, or your potential child's future. Things might get really bad, they might not (especially if you and your wife are peak-oil, and environmentally aware, you could give them a headstart.)

Don't know what else to tell you, fella. Except try not to get angry at your wife's dilemma. That will surely give her pause about the strength of your marriage.

Good luck...many men have had similar problems.

[Daculling]

Get snipped and then keep trying to have kids. Maybe after a few years she'll lose interest.

..trying to have kids that is.

Actually forget that... way too deceitful. I'm out of ideas, good luck.

[PrairieMule]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grifter', 'A')nyone think her mind could be changed back? She's 33!

[Prince]

This is a sticky issue. I'm 29 and have never wanted kids. I told people this when I was 15, 22, 25, and now 29, and the answer has always been "oh, you'll change your mind... just wait and see." I've waited and "seed" for 15 years and my opinions are firmer today than they were when I was a teenager. It's hard for some people to understand that some people just don't want children. As for the girl I'm dating now, there is a relatively good chance I'll marry her at some point, and although she says she's not sure if she wants kids, I know she does. I've never told her I don't want them, and I probably never will, either.

There really is no safe bet here. The problem is that birth control by-and-large relies totally on the woman. A man has a condom; a woman has 12+ options. If she wants to get pregnant, all she has to do is stop taking her morning pills as her self-righteous "friend" suggested, and you'll be stuck with something you don't want. As someone mentioned, she'll file for divorce, if she doesn't get her kid. In all reality, this is probably true. A determined woman will either get pregnant with you or will leave you. So what is the right answer from your position? I guess keep putting it off and trying to wade out time as long as you can. If she's 33, her glory days are at full-throttle and opportunities will cease to exist shortly.

As far as my stance, I never talk about it, and it never comes up. I also ask myself "well, if I had a kid to make her happy, would that be bad?" I guess it is somewhat selfish, but we all have selfish intentions. I would make a terrible father for no other reason than I just don't want the responsibility. For my own knowledge, I'm curious... did she know you never wanted kids when you married her? Did she also not want kids then?

As a side note, I can't wait for the day when male b/c pills are proven to be safe, effective and hit the market. You'll see the number of "accidental" pregnancies go down pretty damn quick.

[Prince]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', 'I') like to think of my daughters as a source of inspiration that push me harder in life to do well in everything. I also know that kids are a blank slate and you get back what you invest.

[Grifter]

Some very interesting thoughts here. Much more than I got in the real world, although I only talked to 3 people and didn’t announce it in a public arena.

Glad the internet is anonymous.

gampy, I've thought about the fact that when I see the child I might change my mind. Not sure if thats self dellusion or not though, I certainly felt different around my sisters little boy but I still feel uncomfortable around him. I would protect him with my life though. And peak oil is NOT why I don't want a child. I've never wanted a child. Its not my place to save humanity but if it was I would have to have children.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')rifter, remember how bad you wanted your driver's lisc when you turned 16? Magnify by 4X and then you will understand the drive of a woman pushing 30. Not all women are like that mind you and that's ok. There is however a strong correlation with women and the big three O.

[0mar]

Look at it from this perspective.

The world is fucked if you believe in Peak Oil, no matter what you do. So you might as well enjoy it. Keep your wife happy, give her some children and you'll probably be happier too.

If you don't believe in PO, then there's really no arguments against having children.

That's how I look at it. No need for extra stress in my life. If my wife wants kids, I'll give them to her.

[threadbear]

Those overwhelming feelings of affection and fatherly love mayl kick in for the new born infant, but they may not last through the child's adolescance.

Why do people think so many men of the "greatest generation" were such terrible parents? The remote father is one who was ambivalent about being a father in the first place.

People have and don't have children for selfish reasons. One leaves a legacy of generational pain to the world, the other doesn't.