[threadbear]

Having watched many kids very carefully for many years, I agree with you that it's over diagnosed, and also that drugs aren't necessarily the best way to handle it, even when it's properly diagnosed.

Of the kids I've seen who've been diagnosed with it, I'd say half of them should be pulled right off meds. I also agree with what you're saying about television. It tends to shorten the concentration spans of normal kids, but hey, for a kid with adhd, it lengthens concentration span, as it has an hypnotic effect.

On the same note--you give a typical kid a cup of coffee and they'll tear the house down. You give a kid with real adhd coffee and it calms them down. Ritalin is an amphetamine. If you gave that to a kid that didn't have a brain quirk, they'd be wound up as heck, but it's used to calm kids with adhd. They're just wired differently. I can understand everyone's confusion with the issue, though, because it took many years of observation to get any kind of handle on the reality of the situation, and believe me it's very subtle and difficult, and homeschooling isn't necessarily the answer, though philosophically, in many ways, I'm totally with you on that issue.

I get the sense sometimes that kids are actually changing-- that there is some kind of quantum leap in evolution taking place and adhd sufferers are at the leading edge. Nature is trying to create a new personality type and mindset and adhd is a result of consciousness tweaking the brain. They're psychonauts, pioneers.

[Falconoffury]

I read that increasing levels of ADD is a result of an increase of toxins in the food, water, air, and even the meds.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I') get the sense sometimes that kids are actually changing-- that there is some kind of quantum leap in evolution taking place and adhd sufferers are at the leading edge.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I') get the sense sometimes that kids are actually changing-- that there is some kind of quantum leap in evolution taking place and adhd sufferers are at the leading edge.

[I_Like_Plants]

To quote Ted Rall, it was not cool to be a kid in the 1970s*

We were constantly reminded of what a burden we were. Everyone else around us seemed to have the same hatred toward their kids. We were constantly told how great it would be when we were 18 and could be kicked out, and everyone else was the same about their kids. We all ran away before age 18 BTW.

Now, well, a full 40 to 60+ hours a week of work for an individual to survive, how are they supposed to support kids?


The late 1960s:

Dad going to work in a suit, Mom staying home and making baked chicken, 2 dogs 3 cats a snake (in a terrerium) and a goat and a big orange castle made out of plywood by Dad in the back yard, and knowing everyone up and down the street from our age to the old folks, that's all gone now. Dad flying a kite with us out in front of the house (actually standing in the street, neighbors drove around us and waved) and observing that the string followed a curve like the shape of a wine glass. That first trip to the library with Mom and Dad on a weekend. Going to the zoo - as a family, going as a disaffected, perhaps homeless, teenager, does not count in this. Doing puzzles. Bedtime at 7:30. Having your older brother teach you to count to 100.

That's all gone now. It might as well have been obliterated in a nuclear blast.

Does anyone really need any reminder of how families live now?





*Revenge Of The Latchkey Kids, great book!

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '.')..they didn't exist when I was a kid. They really didn't...

[Ayame]

I am of the opinion that todays modern diets full of chemical crap and lacking in essential nutrients are aggrevating the adhd and general mental health situation.

[medicvet]

I don't know why I put up with my son calling me that at all..my daughter is right..I am spoiling him more than I did with her..the one and only time she called me a bitch I slapped her right across the face. I guess it's because he is even at his age physically stronger than me. If I punished him physically he would fight back, and to tell the truth, I'm not sure who would win..it would be pretty even until the cops came and then dhs gets involved..

But there still has to be a solution because I know I don't deserve it. Man, you are right after all...don't have kids.

One thing I know to do is stop his allowance at least and he can't tell me he needs clothes because I know better..he just wants designer labels..well, it's time for him to earn them..if he can't get a job yet he can work for me or get no money.

[Grifter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '
')Grifter, 15 years, wow. I'm a little confused about what happened (not that it's my business, but I'm curious), because in your last post you said you told her you'd give her babies, but you also made it sound like you broke up.

[Ayame]

Well I always think it's not good to get pushed into something you don't want to do especially if it requires a huge commitment (like babies/kids do).

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', 'I') get it now...

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '.')..they didn't exist when I was a kid. They really didn't...

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'T')o quote Ted Rall, it was not cool to be a kid in the 1970s*

We were constantly reminded of what a burden we were. Everyone else around us seemed to have the same hatred toward their kids. We were constantly told how great it would be when we were 18 and could be kicked out, and everyone else was the same about their kids. We all ran away before age 18 BTW.

Now, well, a full 40 to 60+ hours a week of work for an individual to survive, how are they supposed to support kids?


The late 1960s:

Dad going to work in a suit, Mom staying home and making baked chicken, 2 dogs 3 cats a snake (in a terrerium) and a goat and a big orange castle made out of plywood by Dad in the back yard, and knowing everyone up and down the street from our age to the old folks, that's all gone now. Dad flying a kite with us out in front of the house (actually standing in the street, neighbors drove around us and waved) and observing that the string followed a curve like the shape of a wine glass. That first trip to the library with Mom and Dad on a weekend. Going to the zoo - as a family, going as a disaffected, perhaps homeless, teenager, does not count in this. Doing puzzles. Bedtime at 7:30. Having your older brother teach you to count to 100.

That's all gone now. It might as well have been obliterated in a nuclear blast.

Does anyone really need any reminder of how families live

*Revenge Of The Latchkey Kids, great book!

[threadbear]

Grifter, Getting back to your idea about biological drives and whether or not to cave in to partner's desire to have a child--if you read my previous long winded diatribe, you will understand how particularly crucial it is to make the right decision for yourself and for the larger society.

So many more kids today are born wild eyed, eccentric, moon beam chasers. They are our most precious resource, but like hot house orchids, extremely sensitive. Their potential for psychosis is higher, their potential for a kind of sainthood, is also higher. But they need to be raised with higher undertanding, patience, and they require a lot of time and love.

This is where Gideon's point of view is also germaine, and not to be dismissed at all. Children today need the best possible upbringing to bring out the best of what nature has wrought.

You would do well to walk away from a situation that can produce the most positive or the most dastardly result. The stakes have never been higher and those who don't wish to take on what amounts to a hero's journey, parental wise, should bow out. It's not a defeat, and your wife should love you all the more for it, even if she ends up having children with someone else. Best to you, Grifter. You seem like a very good person. It would be easier, but more selfish to just cave in.

[Falconoffury]

Grifter. If it makes you feel any better, your girlfriend will find an abusive boyfriend right after leaving you. In 4 years, she'll be living in a trashy neighborhood apartment with two crying babies and an abusive, drunk husband.

Or she'll have two babies still living with her parents. The father bailed and could not be located. Her parents would constantly scold her over her bad life decisions.

Grifter, don't have kids and your already difficult life will be 10x easier. If you want female affection get a lap dance at a strip club. Then go home and masturbate. Hell, if you really can't wait, do it in the strip club rest rooms. $20, no commitment, and your physical needs are satisfied.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Falconoffury', 'G')rifter. If it makes you feel any better, your girlfriend will find an abusive boyfriend right after leaving you. In 4 years, she'll be living in a trashy neighborhood apartment with two crying babies and an abusive, drunk husband.

Or she'll have two babies still living with her parents. The father bailed and could not be located. Her parents would constantly scold her over her bad life decisions.

Grifter, don't have kids and your already difficult life will be 10x easier. If you want female affection get a lap dance at a strip club. Then go home and masturbate. Hell, if you really can't wait, do it in the strip club rest rooms. $20, no commitment, and your physical needs are satisfied.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', 'O')h come on Threadbear. Spiritually vacuous? He was just kidding.

Hey Zardoz - sounds like your brother was the exception.

[Falconoffury]

It was part joking, but I think I'm right. If she is willing to give in to her urge to procreate, leave her to her fate. Let some other loser bite the bullet.

If you want female affection, it can come a lot cheaper than raising a child.

If you care about her and want to help her as a person, make your case and let her decide. You can't make her decisions for her. Just don't let her mistakes drag you down with her.

[AWPrime]

Some people are happier with children and others are completely the opposite. So don’t be so dogmatic.

[I_Like_Plants]

You guys are describing my nextdoor neighbors well, 15 or so year old kid living with older guy, his uncle supposedly, Parents probably in jail or prison or something, the kid has a criminal record and I've called the cops on 'em 3 times and will more, it's that bad. Hopefully accelerate the kid's progress into a lifetime in prison and good riddence.

The kid smokes, drinks, listens to rap music all day, the older male smokes like a chimney and supplies the kid with vodka and pellet guns, maybe the real ones too.

This is where I realized a good gun is an essential part of any earthquake etc kit. First on the list is to shoot these people when any emergency happens that will make the police too busy to come over and shoot 'em for me.

In our modern "society" where any other human is likely your enemy, it's redundent to say that kids are expendable and treated as either pets to be over-indulged or feral predators to cage up or shoot if one gets a good chance.